Sustainable Farming Incentive - Pilot Information (including PAYMENT RATES)

[J 1177]

The problem with all of this is it detracts from my core business which is cereal growing. Take your eye off that ball or mess around with some option that has to be fitted in and compromises the arable production and its very easy to drop half a ton per acre. So that's anything from £50 per acre off my bottom line, maybe £100.
I don't have staff I can delegate this stuff to. I need to remain focussed, so I'm out. I don't want the distraction or disruption.
That doesn't mean I don't care about wildlife or the environment. We have a wood that is left to it's own devices. We have large watercourse banks hosting all sorts of plants, insects and animals. Birds forage on overwintered stubbles. We have plenty of hedges. Just don't hassle about me about them. They are doing fine.

Exactly how i feel, my somewhat heavy ish land needs the approach that when the weather changes i have to think on the hoof and maybes change my plans to benifit the soil, a rigid system of rules will hammer this.

 

[delilah]

From the NFU seminar, it appears the aim is it to go to tenant, possibly by using a 12 month agreement

Can't see many arable landlords wanting to touch it. The prescriptive nature of the vaguely financially worthwhile options makes failure to comply on one thing or another almost inevitable.
Either they will pay up front and then demand a load back for non-compliance, or you claim in arrears and wait forever to see if they are happy that you tried suitably hard to comply.
But it's ok, because landlords will be happy to wait for rent to be paid. ,

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Payment rates will hopefully be higher in the real scheme as this is obviously running alongside the (declining) BPS? Once no BPS rates will be finalised. Have I read that right?

May be higher, may not.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

There's a section on the importance of 'land management plans,' which will record the land's starting condition and the plan to manage it. It says the plans could be published to demonstrate where public money has gone and aid 'local awareness and engagement.'
Anyone want to have their stewardship agreements published online so the local badger worriers can pore over every detail and conduct their own regular, unofficial 'audits,' the results of which would no doubt be posted on their social media accounts so the poor farmer can be attacked by a mob of keyboard eco warriors?

I thought this. I can imagine eco "Sabs" looking up your scheme compliance rules and setting out to prevent you complying this hitting your payments.

Cut a few trees down? Churn up a buffer zone with 4x4's? Easily done in some cases.

 

[midlandslad]

Payment rates will hopefully be higher in the real scheme as this is obviously running alongside the (declining) BPS? Once no BPS rates will be finalised. Have I read that right?

Not sure, there are Tiers 2 & 3 also to fund, which will not be cheap plus the golden handshake

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Does that mean if you want to be in the pilot you will have to be red tractor assured

Other assurance schemes are available.

Perhaps we should start up a fully farmer controlled one for the purpose?

 

[GeorgeK]

I thought this. I can imagine eci "Sabs" looking up your scheme compliance rules and setting out to prevent you complying this hitting your payments.

Cut a few trees down? Churn up a buffer zone with 4x4's? Easily done in some cases.

Yes the public list of BPS recipients is already abused to intimidate and harass farmers, the more details they can get the more ammunition the antis will have

 

[GeorgeK]

Payment rates will hopefully be higher in the real scheme as this is obviously running alongside the (declining) BPS? Once no BPS rates will be finalised. Have I read that right?

In past publications they have hinted payment rates may vary depending on uptake. So if payments are too high and too popular and their budget is exceeded they will lower payments and vice versa. Could be a good thing because from what people are saying on here there's not huge interest so they will have to consider upping payments if they want to achieve their aims

 

[Bignor Farmer]

The great gold rush of the 2020s

There will only be 2 people making money at the end of the day. Large estates who can go mining payments on an industrial scale and the advisers/agents who sell the shovels.

Farmers will end up with dirty hands, a bad back and no money!

 

[delilah]

if they want to achieve their aims

I've not read anything that will result in 'public goods'.
LFA livestock production and hence rural tourism is fooked. More environmental harm than good will come of the arable payments. Millions will be paid to do the paperwork. Rapid acceleration in the move to bigger and fewer farms.

 

[GeorgeK]

I've not read anything that will result in 'public goods'.
LFA livestock production and hence rural tourism is fooked. More environmental harm than good will come of the arable payments. Millions will be paid to do the paperwork. Rapid acceleration in the move to bigger and fewer farms.

Yes, it reads to me like 'Cross compliance times three to get BPS divided by two' for small farms

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Farmers will end up with dirty hands, a bad back and no money!

Or reassess their business model and adapt to a completely new approach. Easier said than done though.

 

[4course]

It’s not a substitute for BPS, it’s an “alternative crop” and not a very appealing one at that.
Just about got the place back to 4 x 50 acre arable blocks now. Soon be all combinable once the beet is finished. Plough it all in 16 days, drill in 8, combine in 8, bit of spray n fert in between and/or do something more profitable and/or let it.
No more clatting about. We can’t afford the sort of administrative overhead these schemes entail, especially on a small place. Precision mapping and variable rate fert technology on 200 acres - they are having a laugh.

I like the phrase alternative crop, im not ruling anything out but can see the introductory level almost worth the hassle not so keen on the intermediate and on a farm our size with land/soil types and tenure types the advanced is a no no atm ,getting several landlords in different parishes to go with the flow will be insurmountable.
As for any forthcoming retirement scheme have realised this could be turned on its head as mrs 4 course and myself are now just in receipt of our pensions wether state or private which more or less equates to a good % of the loss in bps think we will / could carry on without any interference from any clipboard enthusiasts whilst enjoying our retirement doing what weve enjoyed for most of our lives i.e farming , with the alternative crop.So reckon there will be no retirement here and our alternative crop will be pensions which if you think about it have been funded by the previous schemes, im almost becoming euphoric at the thought as could well be .....(free at last ho ho)

 

[Yale]

Yes, it reads to me like 'Cross compliance times three to get BPS divided by two' for small farms

However DEFRA are hiring us to do their work.

This is not a subsidy payment.

They are hiring us to change our farming practices to meet their criteria.

We are in business not a charity,if their bureaucracy takes time,they pay us for it.

Farmers need to get out of this subsidy mindset.......this is not a subsidy,it’s a business contract.

 

[DRC]

Couple of interesting thoughts from the TFA news letter.
Rewilding task force
Tenants might loose land to landlords just wanting to plant trees or rewild.
Where’s the food coming from ?

 

[curlietailz]

Areas of concern:-
Publishing details of the farm scheme online
Needing to be members of an accreditation scheme
Low payment rates

think I’m out too

 

[curlietailz]

I wonder how it would pan out if the take up was soooo low that no Public Good came from it

farmers just got on farming asthey see fit
Govt would then have little control over the farmers or the countryside
That’s quite a nice thought actually

 

[DRC]

Will there be enough farmers wanting to do the pilot, as I’d have thought most people interested would already be in a scheme, which precludes you from the pilot

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I wonder how it would pan out if the take up was soooo low that no Public Good came from it

farmers just got on farming asthey see fit
Govt would then have little control over the farmers or the countryside
That’s quite a nice thought actually

They'd just legislate for the results.

Change is coming whether we adapt or not.

 

[curlietailz]

Will there be enough farmers wanting to do the pilot, as I’d have thought most people interested would already be in a scheme, which precludes you from the pilot

I’m not in a scheme
And I won’t be in this pilot