Sustainable Vegan Farming System ??

[Kiwi Pete]

It would, and it wouldn't... for a start limiting population is a very taboo subject, as is natural selection (as you touched on) and absorbing the basic fact that we're all playing from the same record: humankind is NOT the centre of the universe, we don't even fit well with our own planet or the ecosystems around us.

Money and technology and chemistry all detract, in a very real sense, what soil regeneration is all about.

So you'd need to look at "primitive" peoples, and that doesn't really interest the bulk of TV watchers - there's the belief that we are better than them, when the facts suggest the opposite...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So true, this mentality of thinking we need to produce more to feed everyone has driven it

As you say, the current and past focus has been on how much we can grow, and how fast - this is why we are burning up our planet at an exponential rate.

It's never been about how much we can put in our soils, how long our crops can grow for, and that distinction is only really becoming relevant.
Hence in another 50 or 60 years, if it takes that long, the "but we've been ploughing for 400 years and it still works" guys will have no hope.
The "chemicals are better than tillage" guys will have no hope, and the "mine's vastly superior to yours" types will all be gone too.

This is the beginning of the end of civilisation, as we know it.

 

[Farmer Roy]

In other words - we're all fûcked, the planet is fûcked, our environment is fûcked & it doesn't matter what steps individuals take or changes made, ultimately we're better off putting a bullet through the collective brain rather than enduring the misery of the next 20, 50, 100 years . . .
Bring on Armageddon & the 4 Horsemen, anhilation would be a blessed relief

 

[Farmer Roy]

Or the abridged version

What's the point of even trying to stand up ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Or the abridged version

What's the point of even trying to stand up ?

Becuase there's meat in the fridge! And cold beer

Other than that, you're quite correct, while I may be sinking some carbons here, on the other side of the planet we have 12 lanes of traffic going in each direction, and people flying in to join the fun - however a good place to start is via learning and educating other people.

If we don't try, then we are equally part of the problem, and that alone gives me real purpose to challenge the status quo and how people think

 

[Banana Bar]

That would depend if the consumers can grow their own, or not?

Of course they could. Obviously lots of land would need to be turned over to allotments so each family could produce their own food. Of course there would be huge time commitments to do this and maybe one family member would have to give up a job? There would certainly be less time for pleasure / leisure. This could well lead to self sufficient families. I can imagine in reality most of the population would rather not do this and so pay their neighbouring allotment holder to do the job for them. Once this starts I could imagine more allotment holders would ask the same person to tend their allotment. Within a short period this guy could be gardening many allotments and being paid for his time and now acquired skill in growing produce for others. With this model the guy who knows how to grow the food in the most efficient way is rewarded properly and the ones who have no desire to grow their own food can earn elsewhere. Sounds a perfect system to me.
I do believe this system is already in place in a few corners of the world, from memory I think it’s called FARMING and an ECONOMY.


BB

 

[Farmer Roy]

And look at the fine mess & devastation to the environment that has caused . . .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Why would it take a huge time requirement?

They aren't farmers, yet

I'd be lucky if I spend 5 hours in the garden per year... and it almost completely feeds a family of 4. When I say almost, the ranch helps, but we still source our fruit elsewhere - almost always, it's swapped for our surplus veg. Sometimes I trade what I harvest from the sea for a bit of venison.
Sometimes the kids help, sometimes not, the food still grows.

When you actually look at farming, commercial production and logistics are far from "perfect" - especially the energy consumption, unless your harvester runs on corn.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

And look at the fine mess & devastation to the environment that has caused . . .

This is largely because of monocultures too, incredibly inefficient and hungry for external input - because of the industrial mindset.
Do my carrots mind peas and potatoes and spinach around them? Hell, no!
That's what drives the whole shebang, diversity.

Farmers struggle with diversity:
Plough it up, burn it off, poison it - because they have such limited understanding of the real drivers of their business, then it burns "their" resources and time - the spinoff is the network around them do really well, while they need vast areas to feed their families.

It's a struggle to see how this system can be construed as "better" or "more efficient" than a small garden per family, and some better education in the direction of ecosystem function

 

[Farmer Roy]

The BIGGEST environmental devastation is called AGRICULTURE

EVERY civilisation has failed because their agriculture had collapsed

Ours WILL be the same

 

[CornishTone]

You lot are real buzz kills, you know that?! Here we are, quite happily mocking the absurdity and hypocrisy of veganism, and you pair turn up and start being all doomy. Buck up and join in the judgment and righteous condemnation of the heathen vegans along with the rest of us will you!!!!

You might even enjoy it!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

You lot are real buzz kills, you know that?! Here we are, quite happily mocking the absurdity and hypocrisy of veganism, and you pair turn up and start being all doomy. Buck up and join in the judgment and righteous condemnation of the heathen vegans along with the rest of us will you!!!!

You might even enjoy it!

Yeah, apologies for the "off-topic"

I just re-read the title, it says vegan farming, so I could have just said yes, it's unsustainable.

 

[Tim W]

I visited a no animal organic veg farm in Germany in the late '80's (i think) which ran on plenty of enthusiastic labour , clover for N fixing and some compost from local sources
This was close to a decent sized city which made for a good market for excess goods
It's a long time ago and i forget the details but it was done on a good scale of maybe 100 acres or more and was impressive
It is doable although the nit pickers will of course find reasons to deride it

I don't understand the ongoing vegan bashing on this forum ---most people who live a vegan based diet do it for a variety of reasons and do it quietly, as farmers we would be foolish to alienate them (there are always a few loudmouths in any population)

My garden which takes 10 mins work/day uses my compost and i use some animal muck but this could probably be replaced with clover and by having a compost toilet (which i have had in the past = excellent growing matter)

 

[Banana Bar]

The BIGGEST environmental devastation is called AGRICULTURE

EVERY civilisation has failed because their agriculture had collapsed

Ours WILL be the same

Lets just stop then.

 

[SilliamWhale]

So can all the crops needed to provide a vegan diet be grown in the uk ,serious question and not being sarcastic?

Anythings possible im sure!

 

[davieh3350]

Law of return. What you take out of the ground should go back in the ground.
if they are happy to grow their own food and compost all their waste organic matter and add their own muck to the pile instead of flushing it down the drain, then it should go on for a very long time quite happily. Though moving around to let the ground they've been cropping go back to nature for a rest would make sense too, then what's the problem?
i have no idea why they wouldn't use wool for clothing though.

 

[d-wales]

The only real way to be vegan is to have garden produce. recycling your own "end product" back into the ground, and being on site full time to stop the slugs, aphids, rabbits etc from taking your dinner..............not really practical.

Once vehicles, machinery and chemicals start to be used then animals/insects start being harmed.

 

[Canada Farmer]

It's actually not too difficult to achieve this
in a sustainable way - it's called gardening

It's all the transport and dumb "farmer beliefs" such as fertilisers being necessary that makes agriculture unsustainable, and it doesn't really matter what is that is produced - if you don't over-produce stuff, and haul it around the district, then it's ultimately a sustainable practice

When you get into importing fertilisers and machines and chems, then it becomes ultimately a futile pursuit, because all of those items are only for our current time of abundant resource and clear subsidisation - what's "sustainable" about burning 10 units of energy to produce a unit of food energy?

This question usually makes me really unpopular with farmers and vegan consumers alike - we are all on this Earth together, the true cost of what we do is hidden behind the farce of the "cheap food, cheap fuel" movement

Food has been transported around the world to a degree for hundreds if not thousands of years, that's why most major cities tend to be base around ports, if anything powered transportation is only a recent invention drive by the pressure of time, with that excluded there is no reason why in the future that very low or no emission ships could be used in the future.

 

[Canada Farmer]

Now that would make good tv!

Savages!!!

 

[Canada Farmer]

So can all the crops needed to provide a vegan diet be grown in the uk ,serious question and not being sarcastic?

UK bananas? Or will that happen with GM?