Synchronising cow for ai

[hendrebc]

Last year I bought a well bred pedigree Angus cow and bull calf so I could use bull calf to serve cows when he was big enough.
Well I still have this cow and she calved again last week. She is due to go the the bull early July but I don't really want to put her to either of my bulls I'd rather put an as yet unknown ai bull on her. I really don't want to, and don't think I could, watch her to see when she comes bulling and bring her in to do.
Can you get a cow to bull on a certain day like you can with sheep and sponges?

 

[Cowabunga]

Last year I bought a well bred pedigree Angus cow and bull calf so I could use bull calf to serve cows when he was big enough.
Well I still have this cow and she calved again last week. She is due to go the the bull early July but I don't really want to put her to either of my bulls I'd rather put an as yet unknown ai bull on her. I really don't want to, and don't think I could, watch her to see when she comes bulling and bring her in to do.
Can you get a cow to bull on a certain day like you can with sheep and sponges?

Yes of course, but you will need to bring her in multiple times to fit PRID/CIDR progesterone releasing devices and then to remove the device and inject prostaglandin. Then catch her again to AI at 56 hours after the removal of the device.
There are many variations of this protocol and I get confused every time, so do consult your vet who will need to be involved.

Alternatively check for observed heat. Much simpler.

 

[Rossymons]

A synch programme usually costs about £30/cow but for one I don't know how the vets would charge your call out fee.

You'll need to bring her in 3-4 times depending on what programme you use.

You'll have a 50% chance of her holding- she either will or she won't. Synch programmes only replicate your conception rate - they don't improve on it.

Seems a load of hassle for one animal.

 

[hendrebc]

That does sound like a lot of hastle for one cow....
I'll phone the vet and see what they have to say. I do have some store cattle I could put her in with to see if I can watch for her bulling I suppose

 

[ladycrofter]

Same as you, I kept a good calf for a bull. Turned out he was miles better than any of the usual AI bulls I used . No assists and calves grew like crazy. His straw was a lost one from the bottom of the tank, proper old- style angus.
Before I had my own bull I AI' d by watching. Two problems - if you work off farm, forget it, you'll miss them. Second, you really need to catch her 10 - 12 hrs after start of bulling. My AI guy only did morning rounds. I know I missed a few catches by just a few hours. Once he got held up somewhere in roadworks.
I synced one year but didnt like the idea of forcing ovulation. Both AI guy and vet said it only works best on heifers, and if you do it often it can mess up their hormone cycles. IIRC they came in 4 times: cidr in, cidr out and injection, then 2 AI visits at strict intervals. 60% catch, slightly worse than observation. But you can schedule it to fit your availability.
In the end, I just bred her back to her son and sold the store. Cow was a 3-way cross and bull was 7/8 AA, so never had issues with the calf, grew as well as the rest.
Don't expect magic from AI bulls, they are not all they're cracked up to be (by the company that's invested £££ in managing and tracking them). EBV's on carefully managed cows IMO.
Expect to sync twice to catch, then you're quids in if she holds on the first.

 

[hendrebc]

Same as you, I kept a good calf for a bull. Turned out he was miles better than any of the usual AI bulls I used . No assists and calves grew like crazy. His straw was a lost one from the bottom of the tank, proper old- style angus.
Before I had my own bull I AI' d by watching. Two problems - if you work off farm, forget it, you'll miss them. Second, you really need to catch her 10 - 12 hrs after start of bulling. My AI guy only did morning rounds. I know I missed a few catches by just a few hours. Once he got held up somewhere in roadworks.
I synced one year but didnt like the idea of forcing ovulation. Both AI guy and vet said it only works best on heifers, and if you do it often it can mess up their hormone cycles. IIRC they came in 4 times: cidr in, cidr out and injection, then 2 AI visits at strict intervals. 60% catch, slightly worse than observation. But you can schedule it to fit your availability.
In the end, I just bred her back to her son and sold the store. Cow was a 3-way cross and bull was 7/8 AA, so never had issues with the calf, grew as well as the rest.
Don't expect magic from AI bulls, they are not all they're cracked up to be (by the company that's invested £££ in managing and tracking them). EBV's on carefully managed cows IMO.
Expect to sync twice to catch, then you're quids in if she holds on the first.

A friend who tried ai for some cows said it was a waste of time and some of his spring calving cows became late summer/ autumn calvers because they kept missing them or they didn't take. Said if he was ever to do it again he would synchronise them that's what made me think it would be worth doing because he is no fool so I was surprised he didn't get on with it. Don't want to use my main bull on her he is the wrong type for what I want and the other is her son. Not sure how he will turn out yet either I want a big limousine type Angus on her ideally.
Synchronising one cow sounds like a lot of work though I was hoping it was just a quick jab from the vet and ai her next week or something
I'll stick her in with the stores or the few cows haven't calved yet and watch her I think. The genus farm is only 15 minutes away and I see their vans about all the time so getting hold of someone to do it shouldn't be a problem I hope.

 

[Treg]

A friend who tried ai for some cows said it was a waste of time and some of his spring calving cows became late summer/ autumn calvers because they kept missing them or they didn't take. Said if he was ever to do it again he would synchronise them that's what made me think it would be worth doing because he is no fool so I was surprised he didn't get on with it. Don't want to use my main bull on her he is the wrong type for what I want and the other is her son. Not sure how he will turn out yet either I want a big limousine type Angus on her ideally.
Synchronising one cow sounds like a lot of work though I was hoping it was just a quick jab from the vet and ai her next week or something
I'll stick her in with the stores or the few cows haven't calved yet and watch her I think. The genus farm is only 15 minutes away and I see their vans about all the time so getting hold of someone to do it shouldn't be a problem I hope.

I've been Ai ing my suckler herd for 17 years never had a bull , this year was the first spring that they've been quiet to observe so have used tail paint for the first time , soon caught the quiet ones coming in season.
Quite often bring in cows from 4- 5 fields away to be served .

Create good lanes with electric fences.
Encourage them in , give them something they like to eat when in.
Be calm with them and walk them in slowly.

 

[hendrebc]

I've been Ai ing my suckler herd for 17 years never had a bull , this year was the first spring that they've been quiet to observe so have used tail paint for the first time , soon caught the quiet ones coming in season.
Quite often bring in cows from 4- 5 fields away to be served .

Create good lanes with electric fences.
Encourage them in , give them something they like to eat when in.
Be calm with them and walk them in slowly.

Not too worried about getting her in its catching her bulling without a bull that's my worry I know a few that have tried and failed with sucklers but maybe they just aren't paying enough attention
But seeing @ladycrofter say its 10-12 hours after gives time to get someone here to do it thars what I was worried about more than anything. Suppose the only way to find out how it works is to try.

 

[primmiemoo]

Tail paint on the cow, or a marker halter on either the dominant cow, or a steer. Observe changes in mucus, too.

 

[Treg]

Not too worried about getting her in its catching her bulling without a bull that's my worry I know a few that have tried and failed with sucklers but maybe they just aren't paying enough attention
But seeing @ladycrofter say its 10-12 hours after gives time to get someone here to do it thars what I was worried about more than anything. Suppose the only way to find out how it works is to try.

I check mine 7.30 am any I think are rubbed or being jumped served thar day when ever Ai person can come after that time anything being jumped served next day .
Most hold 1st time there's always a odd cow which can take several services , I put this down to them having perhaps a smaller time frame to hold .

 

[hendrebc]

I check mine 7.30 am any I think are rubbed or being jumped served thar day when ever Ai person can come after that time anything being jumped served next day .
Most hold 1st time there's always a odd cow which can take several services , I put this down to them having perhaps a smaller time frame to hold .

That doesn't sound too complicated even for me

 

[Rossymons]

Dont worry about the 12 hour rule. Cogent, Genus plus anyone else all serve in the morning and don't have an afternoon shift. There business is based on it and the if the results were terrible they wouldn't have a business.

 

[Treg]

^^^ this

 

[ladycrofter]

Dont worry about the 12 hour rule. Cogent, Genus plus anyone else all serve in the morning and don't have an afternoon shift. There business is based on it and the if the results were terrible they wouldn't have a business.

Odd but mine mostly ever bulled in the afternoon or evening anyway. Don't know if this is typical.

 

[Agriclegend]

I have been AI-ing my cows since I first got cattle and never had a bull. I work off-farm full time so have tried tail paint, tail patches, flash mates, and other heat detectors. I have also tried various forms of synchronisation. Whatever you do I would say observation is the key as even the synchronisation programmes are not all that accurate or indeed reliable. I have found the best approach is to use some form of heat mount detector, Kamars, generally the best for me but I have also had good results from other types too. Take a look at the cows twice a day, in the morning and evening, the heat detector will draw your attention to something happening but don't rely on it absolutely. The studies suggest 30 minutes observation twice a day but you will probably find that heat detectors will draw your attention to possible activity. As others have said most AI firms do morning rounds and generally want a call before 9:30 or 10 for same day service, some offer more.

 

[hendrebc]

Well I put her with the cows that haven't calved yet so I can keep an eye on her while the rest of the cows and calves go up to some rough grazing out of the way for a bit.
Thanks for the advice I'll let you know how I get on!

 

[Agriclegend]

Just bear in mind that you will see less bulling activity if you put her with cows which are in calf as those cows will generally not be as interested in getting involved in the same way as young stock or cows which are not in calf.

 

[Henarar]

We looked at synchronisation and AI years ago when a bull went wrong, we went and bought another bull.

That said keep an eye on her and you should be able to see her bulling, we AI some in the field with the cow catcher, saves bringing them in.

 

[hendrebc]

Just bear in mind that you will see less bulling activity if you put her with cows which are in calf as those cows will generally not be as interested in getting involved in the same way as young stock or cows which are not in calf.

There shouldn't be ( ) any cows left to calve in a month when the bull goes out she can go in with the stores again then it was just the way they were arranged in fields and handier to get her back with the in calvers.
That is good to know though I never thought of that