Syria

[DrWazzock]

It hasn't been confirmed 100% that it was Assad ...Isis captured lots of chemical weapons in the past ....Makes no sense that Assad starts using them now ..when he is winning the civil war and risks international condemnation.

We aren't party to the full details of the intelligence used by the US as a basis for the strike, but after all that went wrong with Iraq, I'd imagine they put a lot of effort into the checking the facts on the ground. They performed a clinical strike, targeting hardware rather than personel or civilians.

If Assad and Russians had been as good as their word, and got rid of chemical weapons a couple of years ago when they gave assurances to the international community that they had done so, then this situation would not have arisen.

I really do despair at the misery and destruction that has been brought about in Syria. No side is blameless, but the reappearance and use of chemical weapons against civilians or at least with complete disregard for civilians is a new low. If we are to sit back and make no response to this, then exactly when would we decide that enough is enough?

Fully agree that the evidence about who used them should be cast iron. Absolutely. I hope and trust that it was.

 

[orchard]

Nobody's saying sit back and do nothing, at least to my ken, but that doesn't mean you have to sign up to a lynch mob because they are shouting the loudest.

We aren't party to the full details of the intelligence used by the US as a basis for the strike, but after all that went wrong with Iraq, I'd imagine they put a lot of effort into the checking the facts on the ground. They performed a clinical strike, targeting hardware rather than personel or civilians.

If Assad and Russians had been as good as their word, and got rid of chemical weapons a couple of years ago when they gave assurances to the international community that they had done so, then this situation would not have arisen.

I really do despair at the misery and destruction that has been brought about in Syria. No side is blameless, but the reappearance and use of chemical weapons against civilians or at least with complete disregard for civilians is a new low. If we are to sit back and make no response to this, then exactly when would we decide that enough is enough?

Fully agree that the evidence about who used them should be cast iron. Absolutely. I hope and trust that it was.

 

[Muck Spreader]

We aren't party to the full details of the intelligence used by the US as a basis for the strike, but after all that went wrong with Iraq, I'd imagine they put a lot of effort into the checking the facts on the ground. They performed a clinical strike, targeting hardware rather than personel or civilians.

If Assad and Russians had been as good as their word, and got rid of chemical weapons a couple of years ago when they gave assurances to the international community that they had done so, then this situation would not have arisen.

I really do despair at the misery and destruction that has been brought about in Syria. No side is blameless, but the reappearance and use of chemical weapons against civilians or at least with complete disregard for civilians is a new low. If we are to sit back and make no response to this, then exactly when would we decide that enough is enough?

Fully agree that the evidence about who used them should be cast iron. Absolutely. I hope and trust that it was.

It's funny how the Russians have used the same reasoning (but with gas) that the American's used 10 days ago for the accidental killing of 300 civilians in Mosal. The US needs to decide which side they are on, they cannot be fighting against ISIS and Al qaeda and their likes in one country and supporting and arming them in another. Whether you agree with them or not the Russians at least appear to have a coherent policy about who they are fighting and who they are supporting that we can all understand.

 

[dstudent]

Has any one seen or even heard of in the news of the gutsy Bolivian UN representative telling off that obnoxious USA representative about false informations which led to the Iraq war at 3.29 min into the video however the all speach is good, I did not see this on main stream news I had to go to the russian news

 

[dstudent]

They aren't being singled out because they are any more or less terrible. The US is making the point that Assad agreed to destroy his chemical weapons arsenal a while back then suddenly they appear again. He has shown utter contempt for global regulatory organisations and so he should expect a response.

Apparently the investigation in 2013 did not find any evidence that it was AL Assad who was using the gas, but plenty that the rebels were. However the lie persists that he did, misinformation aplenty, but we ve seen that time and time again

 

[dstudent]

Below is the russian UN representative, the guy is seriously and rightly pi@#$

 

[dstudent]

Sorry guys I m gonna add one article I found, which questions one of the sources of all this misinformation,the doctor, who has been twitting the all affair. So he was arrested for the kidnapping of a british and dutch journalists, he is an extremist and his brother is an ISIS fighter So now the USA acts on the informations of terrorist?
http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/shajul-islam-idlib-chemical-attack-syria-media
This is what John Cantile had to say about the doctor, unfortunatly he got kidnapped again and could not testify at the trial. Why isn t the main stream media red flagging this guy, what about the government?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...British-journalist-hostage.html#ixzz4dYX4WMy4)

 

[orchard]

Yea, this was mentioned in the article I posted earlier. Struck off by the BMC too...

Sorry guys I m gonna add one article I found, which questions one of the sources of all this misinformation,the doctor, who has been twitting the all affair. So he was arrested for the kidnapping of a british and dutch journalists, he is an extremist and his brother is an ISIS fighter So now the USA acts on the informations of terrorist?
http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/shajul-islam-idlib-chemical-attack-syria-media
This is what John Cantile had to say about the doctor, unfortunatly he got kidnapped again and could not testify at the trial. Why isn t the main stream media red flagging this guy, what about the government?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...British-journalist-hostage.html#ixzz4dYX4WMy4)

 

[dstudent]

Yea, this was mentioned in the article I posted earlier. Struck off by the BMC too...

Yes you did, sorry
So does this mean you and I are better than the all USA and UK intelligence service?
if so we re in trouble

 

[Danllan]

A lot of stupidity on this thread so far, criticism coming seemingly because President Trump did something; note that, because he did it, and not it seems what was actually done. The evidence that has been adduced by reliable - i.e. independent - sources indicates that the poisoning was the result of sarin and that it was the result of an air drop.

Four things come to mind from this: 1) sarin is neutralised by explosive combustion; 2) the facility to produce the amount of Sarin deployed is not within the capability of the 'rebel' groups accused; 3) Russia & Syria have total air dominance over the theatre; 4) Chemical weapons are rarely deployed for immediate tactical advantage, their 'value' being in their power to terrify.

If one is willing to set aside personal prejudice against President Trump, some of it being entirely understandable, and make a simple and rational assessment of what we know, the conclusion will be that Assad's regime deployed chemical weapons, again, with or without the knowledge and acquiescence of the Russians.

Whether President Trump was right or wrong to deploy missiles in response is a different question. My own opinion is that such weapons are horrendous and that warnings were given before and were not then backed up with action. The use of such weapons must be discouraged / ended and to ensure this a measured military response, following unambiguous warnings, is an absolute necessity.

 

[JohnGalway]

Has any one seen or even heard of in the news of the gutsy Bolivian UN representative telling off that obnoxious USA representative about false informations which led to the Iraq war at 3.29 min into the video however the all speach is good, I did not see this on main stream news I had to go to the russian news

Political opportunism.

Bolivia being not too far removed from the same thinking as Venezuela, also close to Russia.

Didn't watch, not saying they're right or wrong, but be aware of their bias.

 

[opininionated]

Political opportunism.

Bolivia being not too far removed from the same thinking as Venezuela, also close to Russia.

Didn't watch, not saying they're right or wrong, but be aware of their bias.

We can all be subject to bias news reporting

 

[JohnGalway]

We can all be subject to bias news reporting

I never mentioned news reporting. I was talking about different countries political leanings and relationships going back many years.

 

[opininionated]

I never mentioned news reporting. I was talking about different countries political leanings and relationships going back many years.

In the same way that UK and USA tend to be biased towards the same views due to their political leanings and long relationship.

 

[fudge]

Assad doesn't cooperate with the US so they want him gone.The media cooperate towards that objective.Putin backs Assad.
As for ordinary Syrian folk,Washington and Moscow couldn't give a stuff.

I completely agree with this. Terror has been rained down on these people for years. The various levels of proxy wars being fought in Syria suit Putin and Trump well enough or they would stop.

 

[dstudent]

A lot of stupidity on this thread so far, criticism coming seemingly because President Trump did something; note that, because he did it, and not it seems what was actually done. The evidence that has been adduced by reliable - i.e. independent - sources indicates that the poisoning was the result of sarin and that it was the result of an air drop.

Four things come to mind from this: 1) sarin is neutralised by explosive combustion; 2) the facility to produce the amount of Sarin deployed is not within the capability of the 'rebel' groups accused; 3) Russia & Syria have total air dominance over the theatre; 4) Chemical weapons are rarely deployed for immediate tactical advantage, their 'value' being in their power to terrify.

If one is willing to set aside personal prejudice against President Trump, some of it being entirely understandable, and make a simple and rational assessment of what we know, the conclusion will be that Assad's regime deployed chemical weapons, again, with or without the knowledge and acquiescence of the Russians.

Whether President Trump was right or wrong to deploy missiles in response is a different question. My own opinion is that such weapons are horrendous and that warnings were given before and were not then backed up with action. The use of such weapons must be discouraged / ended and to ensure this a measured military response, following unambiguous warnings, is an absolute necessity.

With due respect @Danllan actually we do not know what happened there.
there has not been any investigation and the USA has not produced an ounce of evidenciary proof so far, and because of past events, such as the Iraq war (but we can go back to the Vietnam war), well excuse me and others if we question the veracity of their assertions. Considering the consequences of their past actions, millions of people dead, millions more dispersed injured, and let s not forget ISIS, and all the attacks we are suffering now here in Europe, I am not prepared to take their word for it.
We do not know if it was indeed sarin, we do not know how it was introduced and by whom.

But what we do know however is that the rebels do have access to and manufacturing capability of sarin and other cw, the UN knows it and the USA knows, the all world and is wife knows, a fact which was stated by the Russian guy in the above video. To discard the possibility that the rebels might be involved in this, especially knowing that they have used it before in the region would be stupid.
therefore yes I am highly critical of rtrump actions, which might lead to the further destabilisation of the region, but also of the possibility of further chemical attacks by Islamist.

 

[fudge]

With due respect @Danllan actually we do not know what happened there.
there has not been any investigation and the USA has not produced an ounce of evidenciary proof so far, and because of past events, such as the Iraq war (but we can go back to the Vietnam war), well excuse me and other if we question the veracity of their assertions. Considering the consequences of their past actions, millions of people dead, millions more dispersed injured, and let s not forget ISIS, and all the attacks we are suffering now here in Europe, I am not prepared to take their word for it.
We do not know if it was indeed sarin, we do not know how it was introduced and by whom.

But what we do know however is that the rebels do have access to and manufacturing capability of sarin, the UN knows it and the USA knows, the all world and is wife knows, a fact which was stated by the Russian guy in the above video. To discard the possibility that the rebels might be involved in this, especially knowing that they have used it before in the region would be stupid.
therefore yes I am highly critical if rtrump actions, which might lead to the further destabilisation of the region, but also of the possibility of further chemical attacks by Islamist.

This joke isn't really funny. Assad has an enormous vested interest in driving a wedge between Russia and the USA. Russia has kept him in power. If the US and Putin got their heads together he would be history. Remember he isn't a normal human being he has murdered thousands of his own people. He knows the use of chemical weapons will stop Trump forming an alliance with Putin who has facilitated this attack by perpetuating the regimes power. The decent folk of the USA won't allow such an alliance now.

 

[JohnGalway]

In the same way that UK and USA tend to be biased towards the same views due to their political leanings and long relationship.

Yeah, and?

 

[orchard]

It's just as likely that a Syrian use of CM and subsequent opinion would drive the Russian's closer to the US/UK position.

This joke isn't really funny. Assad has an enormous vested interest in driving a wedge between Russia and the USA. Russia has kept him in power. If the US and Putin got their heads together he would be history. Remember he isn't a normal human being he has murdered thousands of his own people. He knows the use of chemical weapons will stop Trump forming an alliance with Putin who has facilitated this attack by perpetuating the regimes power. The decent folk of the USA won't allow such an alliance now.

 

[Muck Spreader]

A lot of stupidity on this thread so far, criticism coming seemingly because President Trump did something; note that, because he did it, and not it seems what was actually done. The evidence that has been adduced by reliable - i.e. independent - sources indicates that the poisoning was the result of sarin and that it was the result of an air drop.

Four things come to mind from this: 1) sarin is neutralised by explosive combustion; 2) the facility to produce the amount of Sarin deployed is not within the capability of the 'rebel' groups accused; 3) Russia & Syria have total air dominance over the theatre; 4) Chemical weapons are rarely deployed for immediate tactical advantage, their 'value' being in their power to terrify.

If one is willing to set aside personal prejudice against President Trump, some of it being entirely understandable, and make a simple and rational assessment of what we know, the conclusion will be that Assad's regime deployed chemical weapons, again, with or without the knowledge and acquiescence of the Russians.

Whether President Trump was right or wrong to deploy missiles in response is a different question. My own opinion is that such weapons are horrendous and that warnings were given before and were not then backed up with action. The use of such weapons must be discouraged / ended and to ensure this a measured military response, following unambiguous warnings, is an absolute necessity.

As I have said before we don't know, if it proves to be correct then Trumps response was probably proportional and correct. The important thing is that Assad's government doesn't collapse if it does god help the Syrian population as there is absolutely no one to take over running the country in any form. The main opposition groups are mostly Muslin fundamentalists financed and armed by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Groups like the Free Syrian Army are little more of than groups of racketeering gangsters who the CIA supply weapons to that they then sell on to the fundamentalist groups. In a word there are no good guys in Syria.