T3

[B'o'B]

There is always the untreated yield figure to look at. But do not disagree otherwise.

But the varieties don‘t get selected to be on the list from the untreated. The untreated figures basically tell you which of the varieties that do well with high inputs, suffer the least without fungicides.

 

[Gong Farmer]

or are they in cahoots/sponsored by fertiliser and fungicide makers?

Many are owned by them.
However they have to strike a balance with so many traits. You can see a disease resistant variety coming though then it gets dismissed because of low spec wt/late maturity/weak straw etc etc.

Extase has given lower yields treated than untreated in RL trials. Other vars have come close, so agree it's solely aimed at high yielding vars. The RL aims to find optimum yield potential when all available technology is used. Problem is some vars can be harmed by that 'technology'.

 

[PSQ]

Most of our wheats haven't had any fungicide this year, looking good so far.

Happy to have jumped off the hamster wheel.

Crusoe and Extase. We are treating them with nutrients etc and watching closely.

FFS, Is this really the way to treat Extase?
It’s a great variety, but relying on its disease resistance alone is surely going to lead to its breakdown to Septoria far quicker than would otherwise be the case

 

[Chalky]

Problem with 'watching closely' is what you will never see. Latent periods will lull one into a false sense of security/satisfaction. Then......

 

[farmerm]

Most of our wheats haven't had any fungicide this year, looking good so far. Two fields of Zyatt have, showing a bit of rust. Won't grow that again.
Happy to have jumped off the hamster wheel.

If our Zyatt had no fungicide it would be dead now! Like you I shall be dropping it

 

[Steevo]

Problem with 'watching closely' is what you will never see. Latent periods will lull one into a false sense of security/satisfaction. Then......

A bit like not insuring your house but watching closely…..by the time you realise it, it can be too late and you need what you haven’t got.

 

[fudge]

FFS, Is this really the way to treat Extase?
It’s a great variety, but relying on its disease resistance alone is surely going to lead to its breakdown to Septoria far quicker than would otherwise be the case

Extase is likely to be very widely grown, imo it’s very popularity will contribute to a drift down in disease ratings as much as the “missing” certain sprays off. Here in lincs it would be very clean with two applications of PTZ, why spend more?

 

[teslacoils]

Too breezy to go in the day anyway.

 

[PSQ]

Extase is likely to be very widely grown, imo it’s very popularity will contribute to a drift down in disease ratings as much as the “missing” certain sprays off. Here in lincs it would be very clean with two applications of PTZ, why spend more?

With reference to Martians ‘no fungicide’ strategy, there is still a 7% yield penalty between untreated at 93% and the UK treated result at 100%. That gap on its own is worth investing in.

Add to it the fact that Extase is forecast to be the most popular variety sown in the Uk this autumn, and the idea of dropping fungicides entirely is playing with fire and risking the fairly novel French genetic parentage (Boisseau x Solheio) to throw us back to the same old narrow selection of Uk genetics we’ve been using for years.

If I’m the only one here that can see a problem with this then I despair for the short sightedness of our industry.

 

[ajd132]

With reference to Martians ‘no fungicide’ strategy, there is still a 7% yield penalty between untreated at 93% and the UK treated result at 100%. That gap on its own is worth investing in.

Add to it the fact that Extase is forecast to be the most popular variety sown in the Uk this autumn, and the idea of dropping fungicides entirely is playing with fire and risking the fairly novel French genetic parentage (Boisseau x Solheio) to throw us back to the same old narrow selection of Uk genetics we’ve been using for years.

If I’m the only one here that can see a problem with this then I despair for the short sightedness of our industry.

As Martian said it has been treated, just not with fungicide. Agronomy is evolving beyond chemicals and nitrogen.

 

[teslacoils]

Just walking crops. Quite a lot of secondary tillers

 

[farmerm]

FFS, Is this really the way to treat Extase?
It’s a great variety, but relying on its disease resistance alone is surely going to lead to its breakdown to Septoria far quicker than would otherwise be the case

works both ways does it not... relying too heavily on fungicides only accelerate disease resistance to them does it not?

 

[SilliamWhale]

With reference to Martians ‘no fungicide’ strategy, there is still a 7% yield penalty between untreated at 93% and the UK treated result at 100%. That gap on its own is worth investing in.

Add to it the fact that Extase is forecast to be the most popular variety sown in the Uk this autumn, and the idea of dropping fungicides entirely is playing with fire and risking the fairly novel French genetic parentage (Boisseau x Solheio) to throw us back to the same old narrow selection of Uk genetics we’ve been using for years.

If I’m the only one here that can see a problem with this then I despair for the short sightedness of our industry.

Whilst I agree with you just imagine if you looked at it another way.

For that "7%" average yield increase across the whole of the farm you could ditch your need for such an expensive sprayer, possibly reduce the fert a little etc.

Put it this way if I could reliably get 9.3t/ha untreated vs 10t/ha treated but shut the gate after a herbicide (less tramline damage too) then it is worth thinking about.

10t ha @ £180t = £1800
9.3t/ha @ £180t = £125/ha less.

My fungicide regime could cost me that and those costs are going up and up

I know its more complicated than that but....

 

[farmerm]

Whilst I agree with you just imagine if you looked at it another way.

For that "7%" average yield increase across the whole of the farm you could ditch your need for such an expensive sprayer, possibly reduce the fert a little etc.

Put it this way if I could reliably get 9.3t/ha untreated vs 10t/ha treated but shut the gate after a herbicide (less tramline damage too) then it is worth thinking about.

10t ha @ £180t = £1800
9.3t/ha @ £180t = £125/ha less.

My fungicide regime could cost me that and those costs are going up and up

I know its more complicated than that but....

the complicated bit is "if I could reliably get 9.3t/ha untreated" Question is can we? I would be happy at 8.5T/ha untreated!

 

[PSQ]

Whilst I agree with you just imagine if you looked at it another way.

For that "7%" average yield increase across the whole of the farm you could ditch your need for such an expensive sprayer, possibly reduce the fert a little etc.

Put it this way if I could reliably get 9.3t/ha untreated vs 10t/ha treated but shut the gate after a herbicide (less tramline damage too) then it is worth thinking about.

10t ha @ £180t = £1800
9.3t/ha @ £180t = £125/ha less.

My fungicide regime could cost me that and those costs are going up and up

I know its more complicated than that but....

I agree with you almost entirely!

But the ‘reliably’ bit is concerning. Expecting Extase to maintain its resistance when it is being widely grown without fungicide, it’s a ticking bomb.
- 1 year? 3 years? 5 years? Bang!

 

[B'o'B]

I agree with you entirely!

But the ‘reliably’ bit is concerning. Expecting Extase to maintain its resistance when it is being widely grown without fungicide, it’s a ticking bomb.
- 1 year? 3 years? 5 years? Bang!

Are we really sure that using robust fungicides actually slows down varietal resistance breakdown?
I would think the biggest challenge Extase faces now will be the amount grown, rather than how it is grown.

 

[farmerm]

I agree with you entirely!

But the ‘reliably’ bit is concerning. Expecting Extase to maintain its resistance when it is being widely grown without fungicide, it’s a ticking bomb.
- 1 year? 3 years? 5 years? Bang!

Hypothetically, from a disease resistance point, should the growing area of any one variety be strictly limited in any given region.... 20 or 30 evenly distributed varieties would put far less selection pressure on diseases than having 4 or 5 varieties dominating the cropping area.

 

[PSQ]

Hypothetically, from a disease resistance point, should the growing area of any one variety be strictly limited in any given region.... 20 or 30 evenly distributed varieties would put far less selection pressure on diseases than having 4 or 5 varieties dominating the cropping area.

Which is normally the case when the RL is made up of 40 odd bland varieties with very little to set them apart apart, except the end use.
Extase stands out like the proverbial tall poppy…

 

[fudge]

Are we really sure that using robust fungicides actually slows down varietal resistance breakdown?
I would think the biggest challenge Extase faces now will be the amount grown, rather than how it is grown.

The use of fungicide promotes resistance surely? As far as septoria and YR are concerned no chem is 100% even at full rate. Therefore every time the sprayer goes through the crop the potential for resistance to develop is there. I wager a pound that the nouvelle actives will lose their “eradicant” activity with in a few seasons, just like all the others have.

 

[Daniel]

I’m impressed with all this bold talk of no fungicides, but this telegraph pole miss in a field of Gleam doesn’t tempt me much:

Rest of the field looks like this: