Talk to me about footvax

[paul&mandy]

We have always been battling with scald that turns into footrot, this year being warm and very damp it's been a nightmare. We've split everything up at weaning to isolate any bad feet but it's a hard battle. Foot bathing with formalin I'm sure has made it worse.
Now the lambs will be going off to roots and won't be coming back again I'm thinking of getting the ewes onto footvax to break the cycle and cull anything that still gets lame etc. Plan in a couple of years to come off footvax?
My big question with it being so expensive is that is it worth it? Obviously it's only 1 tool in the box but 1 I think we need to try.
Any pointers if you have gone down this route.
Thanks Paul

 

[Sheepmansam]

We footvax all ewes every year before lambing. I'd say that cases of feet are down by around 70% although this summer not as much so because of warm weather. Don't know the exact economics and whether it pays to do then once a year but if it means I have to turn over less ewes to do feet then I'm all for it. Nothing gets footbathed here unless there is an outbrake of scald in a group of lambs or something

 

[neilo]

We have always been battling with scald that turns into footrot, this year being warm and very damp it's been a nightmare. We've split everything up at weaning to isolate any bad feet but it's a hard battle. Foot bathing with formalin I'm sure has made it worse.
Now the lambs will be going off to roots and won't be coming back again I'm thinking of getting the ewes onto footvax to break the cycle and cull anything that still gets lame etc. Plan in a couple of years to come off footvax?
My big question with it being so expensive is that is it worth it? Obviously it's only 1 tool in the box but 1 I think we need to try.
Any pointers if you have gone down this route.
Thanks Paul

The best use of Footvax is just that imo, to get on top of an issue. Of course it would be off label, but 0.5ml seems to be just as effective, and I would sooner do two 0.5ml doses than one 1ml dose for the money.

Dare I suggest the Suffolk blood and buying in replacements isn’t going to be helping matters either. As you’ve been buying in from market each year, I assume you have confirmed it is footrot you’re dealing with, and not CODD, for which formalin supposedly isn’t very effective?

As you head down the road to breeding your own replacements, you will have the opportunity to cull out lameness, and to breed from genetics that have been selected along those lines too.

 

[paul&mandy]

The best use of Footvax is just that imo, to get on top of an issue. Of course it would be off label, but 0.5ml seems to be just as effective, and I would sooner do two 0.5ml doses than one 1ml dose for the money.

Dare I suggest the Suffolk blood and buying in replacements isn’t going to be helping matters either. As you’ve been buying in from market each year, I assume you have confirmed it is footrot you’re dealing with, and not CODD, for which formalin supposedly isn’t very effective?

As you head down the road to breeding your own replacements, you will have the opportunity to cull out lameness, and to breed from genetics that have been selected along those lines too.

What's worrying me is we are going to breed our own replacements next year and don't want to mask a problem feet issue with keeping a replacement ewe lamb. Going down the arborfield/highlander route.
It's a lot to think of but soon as harvest over need to get my head around it all.
I just know my wife's been constantly dealing with feet the last few weeks. It's so annoying isolating the good and bad and the good start limping even after a run through a clean bath.
I'm not an expert but I've seen codd and it's not that, just starts as scald and gets worse, not the typical codd from the top of the hoof.
Plan going forward is to have a chat with the vet who did our health plan and get a plan together for this. It's something I want to stamp out when we start our closed flock and only buying in tups which are far easier to isolate.

 

[Moors Lad]

Worst year ever here for scald! We tag lambs to their sire and among the lambs with scald it`s been nearly all the offspring of 2 particular tups that have been far and away the worst . If you can identify the sire of your gimmer lambs and tag accordingly (we just use a different colour cheap management tag) you may very well be able to choose the right ones to retain (foot wise!). It`s obviously an inherited trait from what we`ve seen this year.
We`ve also noticed in other years a lame ewe with a pair of twins very often has a pair of lame lambs too (talking scald here).

 

[Moors Lad]

I wonder what other folk have found with Highlanders and Aberfields when it comes to feet. Innovis do a lot of recording so one would expect some good feedback from past users.....

 

[neilo]

I wonder what other folk have found with Highlanders and Aberfields when it comes to feet. Innovis do a lot of recording so one would expect some good feedback from past users.....

I’ve heard plenty of horror stories about Aberfield tbh, but then a lot of Texel x BFL tups are sold locally as ‘Aberfields’, when then are just normal crossbreds. Personally, I’ve heard enough poor reports on the official specimens that I wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole.

I bought my first Highlander ewe lambs in 2008, well before the Innovis machine got involved with them, and have always found them to be fantastic on foot health tbh. Under severe challenge some will still get scald, but not many will progress to footrot, and a lot will clear up the scald themselves.

I have a number of pure Exlanas running around here, that have been selected heavily on foot health, but there were the same proportion of those lame when we had a lot of scald floating around a couple of months back, as there were Highlanders.
The Highlanders do what they say on the tin, simple as that.

 

[Al R]

I wonder what other folk have found with Highlanders and Aberfields when it comes to feet. Innovis do a lot of recording so one would expect some good feedback from past users.....

No idea on Highlanders but the AF’s we had were horrendous, considering they never went to populate more than 20% of the flock they caused around 75% of the lameness, 90% of the mastitis, and a large proportion of all other problems. Very few have made it to 5 year old with last year a mass cull happened on the 2016 borns as they all had multiple middle teeth missing Yet my own breeding BFL mule ewes are getting to 7-8 lambings no problem with a large proportion of what was retained as ewe lambs are still alive, we are having to keep a lot more ewe lambs each year to make up for the shortfall that the AF’s have caused, it’s also why I’m having to take my own ewes to 7-8 year old because the AF’s are gone earlier so to keep numbers up much older ewes have had to be kept
I know a few others who had AF rams who’s daughters teeth have been very problematic so it wasn’t just mine

 

[Yale]

Indeed AF didn’t last long here until the tups were jettisoned (sold well as aged rams. ) and we now have perhaps 30-40 cross ewes left.

One issue which forced getting rid of a number of AF ewes was the hoof kind of delaminating then causing issues.

I think the ewes which are left are a hard core with better genetic features.

Main reason we footvax is from a welfare perspective as footrot is a horrible painful disease.

 

[sheepwise]

I wonder what other folk have found with Highlanders and Aberfields when it comes to feet. Innovis do a lot of recording so one would expect some good feedback from past users.....

Only know of one man in this area who tried highlanders. The experiment didn't last long as he said their feet were terrible. To be fair he did say that when reading their marketing blurb they were bred for drought prone areas and definitely not for south west Scotland where our rainfall is normally measured in feet.

 

[Pan mixer]

We used footvax for a few years, used oxytet instead of trimming in bad ones, culled the worst.

Don't seem to have much bother with it now and don't vaccinate. We have changed to Easycare though.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Be very careful when administering as self injection requires a trip to a&e

 

[paul&mandy]

I sent some back years ago after reading that. I've seen you can get needle proof gloves.
Know it's been a bad year for it but at the end of our tether and got better things to be doing than feet issues.

 

[paul&mandy]

Only know of one man in this area who tried highlanders. The experiment didn't last long as he said their feet were terrible. To be fair he did say that when reading their marketing blurb they were bred for drought prone areas and definitely not for south west Scotland where our rainfall is normally measured in feet.

Good reading when we just spent a small fortune on some tups.... But we are in the south east but I don't know if it's worse here as it's so mild. Usually damp dewy sort of weather with too much grass.
We find that in winter they actually get better...

 

[Moors Lad]

Good reading when we just spent a small fortune on some tups.... But we are in the south east but I don't know if it's worse here as it's so mild. Usually damp dewy sort of weather with too much grass.
We find that in winter they actually get better...

Read post no 7 then it might make you feel a bit better!

 

[Bluesman]

We used to have an horrific problem with scald in lambs but then went to a vet talk with a lady from one of the drugs companies who also ran a large flock of commercial sheep herself. She said the problems originate with the ewes. The lambs then follow their mum’s footsteps, precisely, and hence get scald. We started on footvax and never really had any real problems since. We do not trim unless essential for welfare and we do not footpath, ever. We graze all grass, sometimes long, sometimes short when we manage to get the management right and some of our land is clay. Footvax has led to less handling and less treatments. I did inject myself with it, 2 trips to A & E but nothing serious. Would thoroughly recommend footvax, the only downside is the occasional abscess at the injection site but is no issue.

 

[Kentishfarmer]

We have always been battling with scald that turns into footrot, this year being warm and very damp it's been a nightmare. We've split everything up at weaning to isolate any bad feet but it's a hard battle. Foot bathing with formalin I'm sure has made it worse.
Now the lambs will be going off to roots and won't be coming back again I'm thinking of getting the ewes onto footvax to break the cycle and cull anything that still gets lame etc. Plan in a couple of years to come off footvax?
My big question with it being so expensive is that is it worth it? Obviously it's only 1 tool in the box but 1 I think we need to try.
Any pointers if you have gone down this route.
Thanks Paul

Was in a similar situation to you a few years ago, decided not to footvax as I've always been of the opinion your reducing the selection pressure on a pretty important trait. I think it comes down to how many replacements your going to have to choose from, if your going to have loads don't vax and cull harder, if not enough then vax until you have your numbers up then cull harder
This year is bad for foot trouble, we've got a number for lame rams for the first time in a while

 

[cjt]

Footvaxed for the first time last winter. Really pleased with the results. Doesn’t cure the worst offenders but seems to cut out all the half lame and allows you to identify and cull the problems. The biggest difference was to the young ewes who have been a nightmare with us for the first 2 years of life. 4 lame out of 400 in the older ewes at weaning which is probably 10 times lower than last year. Feels great value for money when you are so used to dealing with very lame sheep.