Talking to MP about zero till etc. Suggestions please.

[sjt01]

On Tues 5 Jan will be having a Teams meeting with our MP, Jerome Mayhew. This is part of what I wrote to him that prompted the meeting:

"We are farmers and cheesemakers in the North Norfolk part of your constituency. We have been trying our best to reduce the environmental impact of what we do on the farm. Now we see proposals that those who have not been so pro-active as ourselves may well be getting grants to do what we have done already without grant funding.
I find it very hard to take that those who have done their utmost to do the right thing get no support for what they have done, but those who lag behind get funding. I hope you will be able to speak up on our behalf and get some fair support for those who move early."

I see that in Direct Driller 12 @Clive is expressing similar thoughts (page 45). Unfortunately this is not yet on the Direct Driller web site so I cannot forward it to him.

I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions and ammunition I can use.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Needs a results base inducement program.

More pertinent is to get CO2e fixed for livestock methane. Cyclical not linear like fossil fuel CO2. This quite rightly totally transforms the outlook for livestock agriculture especially ruminants.

We have to address N fertiliser’s carbon footprint then we are home and dry.

 

[sjt01]

We have to address N fertiliser’s carbon footprint then we are home and dry.

I am experimenting with acid treatment of digestate, which should reduce ammonia losses and increase the amount getting into the soil quite dramatically. I reckon we loose 25% just between the digester and the lagoon.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

I am experimenting with acid treatment of digestate, which should reduce ammonia losses and increase the amount getting into the soil quite dramatically. I reckon we loose 25% just between the digester and the lagoon.

Acidification of digestate and slurries looks to be a real win/win scenario, are you finding that the pH reduction is stable?

 

[sjt01]

Acidification of digestate and slurries looks to be a real win/win scenario, are you finding that the pH reduction is stable?

At present the main battle is with the fibre in the whole digestate, which tends to clump and block everything when the acid is added. I had a good run last week, but the pump clogged with fibre after 6 batches. When we can get some 6" drain pipe when the builders merchants reopen we have an idea on how to prevent that. There should be an article in the ADBA magazine coming soon.

 

[yellow belly]

On Tues 5 Jan will be having a Teams meeting with our MP, Jerome Mayhew. This is part of what I wrote to him that prompted the meeting:

"We are farmers and cheesemakers in the North Norfolk part of your constituency. We have been trying our best to reduce the environmental impact of what we do on the farm. Now we see proposals that those who have not been so pro-active as ourselves may well be getting grants to do what we have done already without grant funding.
I find it very hard to take that those who have done their utmost to do the right thing get no support for what they have done, but those who lag behind get funding. I hope you will be able to speak up on our behalf and get some fair support for those who move early."

I see that in Direct Driller 12 @Clive is expressing similar thoughts (page 45). Unfortunately this is not yet on the Direct Driller web site so I cannot forward it to him.

I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions and ammunition I can use.

What would be helpful is elms that pay for a balanced rotation spring autumn cereal legume
elms for flowering crop for polinaters
winter cover crops for spring crops to reduce nitrogen losses into the rivers in wet winters
also emphasise that if we stop farming land the environmental foot print of imported food should be scrutinised
we cannot export our carbon pollution when we can continue production using notill conservation systems with a diverse rotation using very low or no insecticide
we also need the investment in plant breeding for notill uk conditions
virus resistant wheat fleabeetle resistant rape bruchid resistant beans

 

[chaffcutter]

@sjt01 send him a pm, he will be likely to pick it up, he was here an hour ago looking for something to do!

 

[DRC]

On Tues 5 Jan will be having a Teams meeting with our MP, Jerome Mayhew. This is part of what I wrote to him that prompted the meeting:

"We are farmers and cheesemakers in the North Norfolk part of your constituency. We have been trying our best to reduce the environmental impact of what we do on the farm. Now we see proposals that those who have not been so pro-active as ourselves may well be getting grants to do what we have done already without grant funding.
I find it very hard to take that those who have done their utmost to do the right thing get no support for what they have done, but those who lag behind get funding. I hope you will be able to speak up on our behalf and get some fair support for those who move early."

I see that in Direct Driller 12 @Clive is expressing similar thoughts (page 45). Unfortunately this is not yet on the Direct Driller web site so I cannot forward it to him.

I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions and ammunition I can use.

Your making a lot of assumptions there just because someone’s bought a direct drill . They might’ve been practicing wheat rape black grass rotation for years , whereas someone with a proper mixed farm with grass , livestock, muck etc, is catching up or lagging behind in your opinion . These farms haven’t wrecked or depleted their soils, and have probably used less chemicals and have better organic matter .
Could even be organic . Which is better, organic farm that ploughs, or non organic that uses chemicals and doesn’t keep any livestock , aka @Clive .?

 

[E_B]

Basically, I think it's peeing in the wind. Do you wish for a retrospective payment for every year you've been no tilling? Impossible to verify. I'm sure everyone will be eligible for whatever scraps they deem themselves generous enough to hand out.

 

[sjt01]

Basically, I think it's peeing in the wind. Do you wish for a retrospective payment for every year you've been no tilling? Impossible to verify. I'm sure everyone will be eligible for whatever scraps they deem themselves generous enough to hand out.

I think payment should not be for having kit, but using it correctly and to good effect. Payment for new kit just puts up prices of the new kit as the dealers take their cut of the grant.

 

[Clive]

On Tues 5 Jan will be having a Teams meeting with our MP, Jerome Mayhew. This is part of what I wrote to him that prompted the meeting:

"We are farmers and cheesemakers in the North Norfolk part of your constituency. We have been trying our best to reduce the environmental impact of what we do on the farm. Now we see proposals that those who have not been so pro-active as ourselves may well be getting grants to do what we have done already without grant funding.
I find it very hard to take that those who have done their utmost to do the right thing get no support for what they have done, but those who lag behind get funding. I hope you will be able to speak up on our behalf and get some fair support for those who move early."

I see that in Direct Driller 12 @Clive is expressing similar thoughts (page 45). Unfortunately this is not yet on the Direct Driller web site so I cannot forward it to him.

I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions and ammunition I can use.

all issues of direct driller are on ISSU

directdriller Publisher Publications - Issuu

Direct Driller is a new farming magazine, designed by farmers for farmers to educate and inform the industry about direct drilling and no-till techniques, soil regeneration and soil conservation in arable and mixed farming situations. Direct Driller Magazine is available free to all farmers and...

issuu.com

if you need a specific link let me know

 

[Clive]

this is my issue 12 article

Farmer Focus: Clive Bailye - Issuu

Fake news? Harvest 2020 was never going to be great, the perfect storm of a wet autumn and winter followed by a spring drought was always going to end in disappointment. When it came to yields any usual excitement and anticipation was replaced by simple desire to clear ground of such uninspiring...

issuu.com

 

[Clive]

I think payment should not be for having kit, but using it correctly and to good effect. Payment for new kit just puts up prices of the new kit as the dealers take their cut of the grant.

education is where a lot of the capital should go - no use buying people new they dont know how to use ! also into improvements to the often neglected but fundamental basics like drainage and pH etc

Successful zerotill for example is a LOT more involved that just changing a drill !

 

[delilah]

A discussion that gives weight to the suggestion that all ELMS area payment money should go to PP.
ELMS cash will be a precious resource, do we really want to be handing a chunk of it over to advisors and the clipboard police ?
Folks are changing their tillage systems anyway, in response to loss of chemicals, availability of new kit, raised awareness, and market forces.
To try and shoe-horn ELMS to fit these changes, or these changes to fit ELMS, will just get in the way of best practice.

 

[Clive]

A discussion that gives weight to the suggestion that all ELMS area payment money should go to PP.
ELMS cash will be a precious resource, do we really want to be handing a chunk of it over to advisors and the clipboard police ?
Folks are changing their tillage systems anyway, in response to loss of chemicals, availability of new kit, raised awareness, and market forces.
To try and shoe-horn ELMS to fit these changes, or these changes to fit ELMS, will just get in the way of best practice.

It's a difficult balance but if you simply throw grant cash at machinery you inflate prices, kill residual values and set a lot of farms up for certain failure

However, I share your fear about agents who are doing a good job of making sure they get their share of any funds as well that's for certain !! I hope DEFRA can see that most agents haven't got a clue about real farming and somehow empower farmers to re-educated and help themselves, I have consistently argued that farmer to farmer knowledge transfer (as we see every day on this website) is some of the most valuable and truly independent information that exists in UK agriculture, with some support its could do SO much more

If we do see capital grants I would rather that were directed at landscape feature creation and improvements to drainage and soil quality etc that used to buy machinery

 

[Bax]

If people go into notill because there is a grant for a new direct drill, they will more than likely see drop in profitability and probably soil structure . Goverment grants would be better targeted towards educating farmers in soil management. Spending lots of money on a fancy Drill doesn't suddenly turn around a ever poor performing soil, which has been over cultivated and is low in organic matter.

 

[sjt01]

Thanks for all the support and discussion. I was speaking to him for about an hour, and have managed to interest him in what is going on in regen agric. I have put him in touch with @martian which I hope will lead to some results on the Environmental Audit Select Committee

 

[martian]

Thanks @sjt01 ...he's set up a virtual meeting tomorrow with a few other bods. Curiously, I've just had a phone call from another MP asking for suggestions for concrete ideas for the Government to use to promote Regen Ag. It seems they love the idea of a carbon-rich countryside with trilling skylarks and ruddy faced healthy children skipping about (who doesn't?) and want to encourage us farmers to create it, but want to know what actual policies they should introduce to make this happen.

I suggested (without giving it too much thought) that there was a great opportunity to privatise BPS, by dint of introducing a Carbon Tax or similar arrangement, whereby high users of carbon, like airlines and N fertiliser makers pay for polluting and anyone who can sequester said carbon safely, like us, scoops the jackpot. There's also potential for water companies to reward us properly for clean water. I think the carrot works better than the stick in these matters.

Anybody got any bright ideas to suggest before I talk to the committee tomorrow?

 

[Cowabunga]

Best keep your mouth firmly shut because what suits your way of farming or your land and enterprises may be the death of other perfectly good businesses with different circumstances.
Beware of all potential legislation as it might be used against you or indeed against the whole industry. Politicians may well have a totally different agenda than you do.
Bugger about with politically expedient rules and regulations and you inevitably end up with a totally skewed artificial system. The American farmers have a very apt soundbite or banner headline which the UK farming industry should adopt. That is….

FREEDOM TO FARM. That means without politicians, legislators and pressure groups sticking their noses in with their own agendas and crackpot ideas forcing farmers to do this that and the other.

 

[sjt01]

Thanks @sjt01 ...he's set up a virtual meeting tomorrow with a few other bods. Curiously, I've just had a phone call from another MP asking for suggestions for concrete ideas for the Government to use to promote Regen Ag. It seems they love the idea of a carbon-rich countryside with trilling skylarks and ruddy faced healthy children skipping about (who doesn't?) and want to encourage us farmers to create it, but want to know what actual policies they should introduce to make this happen.

I suggested (without giving it too much thought) that there was a great opportunity to privatise BPS, by dint of introducing a Carbon Tax or similar arrangement, whereby high users of carbon, like airlines and N fertiliser makers pay for polluting and anyone who can sequester said carbon safely, like us, scoops the jackpot. There's also potential for water companies to reward us properly for clean water. I think the carrot works better than the stick in these matters.

Anybody got any bright ideas to suggest before I talk to the committee tomorrow?

I will be interested to see how you get on tomorrow, he is coming round the farm in a month's time to see what we are doing.
The variability of soil carbon assessments make me very wary of proving sequestration, I am not sure how you can reliably validate this to a government inspector. We can see soils improving ourselves, but the difficulty is reliable quantification.