Tb compensation and pedigree reactors.

topground

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Somerset.
Bazadaise, Blue Albion, Gelbvieh, Gloucester, Kerry, Parthenais and Salers cattle societies all appear to run a herdbook without appearing on the Zootechnical Establishments list that the Animal and Plant Health Agency tell me they rely on when considering an animal to be pedigree when considering higher rates of compensation when slaughtered as a Tb reactor.
The Sheeted Somerset Cattle Project has been trying to get some sense out of the Farm Animals Genetic Respurces Committee for getting on for two years. Their list of organisations https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/567825/bovine-list.pdf
does not include the breeds listed above which appear to run a herdbook and register pedigree animals.
Can the learned members of TFF help me with any information about breeders of pedigree Bazadaise, Blue Albion, Gelbvieh, Gloucester, Kerry, Parthenais and Salers cattle?
I need to know if they have had any problems with proper compensation for pedigre anmals slaughtered as Tb reactors in England particularly.


FAnGR do not appeared to be geared up to dealng with the concept of a new cattle breed being developed despite being told in April 2016 by the Minister of State (when I was present and George Eustice MP decided that LVSP LVSomerset Project should be added to the CTS breed code list?) to set out a proceedure for new cattle breed recognition.

The Dutch don't appear to have any problems if the Improved Dutch Red is anything to go by so why do English cattle breeders not have the same support from DEFRA?
 
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@matthew might be able to help

We lost pedigree baz cow a few years ago as a 2x IR.
Her Pedigree certificate was enough to ensure the pedigree payment.

I believe the certificate is used most of the time. Unless the non peds are worth more, in which case it has been known for some sweetie pie jobsworth to feed the tag number into a pedigree database. And pay the lower at the time, pedigree amount. :(
 

Whitepeak

Member
Livestock Farmer
Interesting that Gloucester and Kerry aren’t covered, even under the RBST.
I think I’m right in saying that the Blue Albion was officially declared extinct, by both DEFRA and RBST. But some breeders are trying to revive them by breeding a Blue Albion type and trying to re-register the breed. Until this time I guess DEFRA would just class them as a crossbred (many 1st cross shorthorn x friesians come out blue roan!), much like the problems you are having with the Somerset Sheeted. I’m sure there’s been threads on Blue Albions before.
 

topground

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Somerset.
I’ll tag @choochter in to this thread too, if bazadaise aren’t on Defra’s database. We can’t have that.​
@matthew @choochter If your pedigree cattle are qualifyng for full compensation if tested as reactors I need to know how without the breed appearing on the Zoonotic Establishments list.
Yours is not the only breed society that have not gone down the Zootechnic route.
The application process is typically bureaucratic and will incurr unnecessary expense unless as a breed society, you expect your members to want to export. I have asked FaNGR for clarification because I suspect this is yet another example of Civil Service gold plating of EU directives to make it unnecessarily complicated to create a new breed.
 

topground

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Somerset.
Maybe they use BCMS database?
There is a code for BAZ there.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/official-cattle-breeds-and-codes

I haven’t searched for any others.
Next time you register a calf online you can find LVSP which is the code for the Sheeted Somerset.
The list on your link also included Cross bred beef and Cross bred Dairy and Kiwi which dont appear to have breed societies and doesnt include LVSP .
@saler breeder @salers . Any thoughts on this thread please?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Compensation for sucklers over 20mths and calved during september is £669!!! WTF. Bl#ody nfu ought to stop this daylight robbery.

I think that horse has bolted. It should have been legally challenged as soon as the tabular valuation system was introduced.

I remember having a first calf Holstein with 9 generations of VG/Ex behind her, who’s mother had a top note of 13k in 305 days. She was worth £100 more because we ‘lost’ her pedigree certificate.:(
 

Werzle

Member
Location
Midlands
Not really there fault if you have lost the certificate but a sickner i agree. I just cannot see where the average market price in england could warrant the awful price of £669 for a suckler cow, its criminal.
 

upnortheast

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northumberland
Couple of years ago DEFRA were looking at the % figure on DS pedigrees & making a decision if the animal was compensated at the "pedigree" rate Different regional offices were interprting the rules differently.
Not sure what is happening now
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Not really there fault if you have lost the certificate but a sickner i agree. I just cannot see where the average market price in england could warrant the awful price of £669 for a suckler cow, its criminal.

You misunderstand me. We didn’t seem to misplace the certificate until after we saw that the non-pedigree valuation was £100 more than that given for pedigree animals.:mad:

Valuation averages include all the three titted thin cows that just about make it to market.
 
^^^^^. Some months we have warned about this difference. But some little apparatchik in the local office logged the tag number into HUKI website and the pedigree status was reinstated.
Bless ‘em.

Not.

Now here’s a thought.
If there was no sale or reduced cash for milk or meat if the farm was under TB restriction, and if there was no compensation at all, tabular or valuer, and if the herd owner was paying for the tests, ( or any of the above) how long could we continue to Farm cattle without taking unilateral action? What is driving the epidemic?

I ask this quite seriously as all three scenarios are in place in other countries, either separately or together.

Tin hat.
 

JP1

Member
Livestock Farmer
It gets worse. FAnGR removed Riggit Galloways from the Breeds At Risk Register (less than 250 breeding females World-Wide) on some quasi (allegedly EU led ) ruling on what was the legal definition of a breed. I'm fighting this now and lobbying the farmer member on that Committee. And this is despite a cast iron letter from the Head of Contingency Planning at DEFRA (i.e. policy on contiguous culls) from 2012 to say my breeds were accepted on the list. They quietly removed them and said they had no duty to go back to individual breeders - wtf?

I despair

BCMS have the cattle perfect on my two holdings, I have the green lights, my holding registers are correct and up to date. Ministry outsource TB testing, APHA lists of animals to be tested wrong, really wrong. And they want to criticise BCMS / CTS ?

No hat (no hair either)
 

Werzle

Member
Location
Midlands
It must be all these rare breed , nanny goat sized cows being sold thats dragging the market averages down. Any suckler cow over 14hands should be £1000+. Theres a whole industry built around tb now but the farmers the only one expected to work for nothing. Supplier of the tb serum must be rubbing there hands together.
 

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quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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