Tb compensation and pedigree reactors.

[gone up the hill]

When does the new TB compensation rates kick in for stock that have been bought in under a TB outbreak and then go down with TB @matthew ??

Am I correct in thinking you will only get 50% compo for these animals? so a suckler cow at todays rate of £669 head means you would only get £334.50 head for her.

 

[gone up the hill]

Compensation for sucklers over 20mths and calved during september is £669!!! WTF. Bl#ody nfu ought to stop this daylight robbery.

Doesn't take much of a barrener to come back at £800 head at the moment!

 

[Werzle]

Doesn't take much of a barrener to come back at £800 head at the moment!

I just do not understand how they get away with paying £669 .

 

[matthew]

When does the new TB compensation rates kick in for stock that have been bought in under a TB outbreak and then go down with TB @matthew ??

Am I correct in thinking you will only get 50% compo for these animals? so a suckler cow at todays rate of £669 head means you would only get £334.50 head for her.

It's been spoken about, but not sure if or when it comes in for England. (This is compensation for animals purchased under licence, during a breakdown. If they too were reactors, then only 50% would be paid).

 

[gone up the hill]

I just do not understand how they get away with paying £669 .

Never been any logic to their figures, I guess they are using barrener prices as well and of course that will include a lot of very bony cattle including dairy cows that have been culled the last few weeks due to lack of grass.

No way in a TB hotspot area you can farm sucklers if that is all they are paying for suckler cows.

NFU really need to challenge where they have got the figure of £669 head from and ask for a breakdown of how they have come to this price.

 

[gone up the hill]

It's been spoken about, but not sure if or when it comes in for England. (This is compensation for animals purchased under licence, during a breakdown. If they too were reactors, then only 50% would be paid).

I heard it was this October but no idea if that is correct or not.

 

[matthew]

I heard it was this October but no idea if that is correct or not.

I guess we'll all know when that particular s$$t hits the proverbial fan.

 

[gone up the hill]

I guess we'll all know when that particular s$$t hits the proverbial fan.

Im sure they will tell us the day after they introduce it... Not that im cynical mind

Good to see you back posting on TFF @matthew

 

[matthew]

Im sure they will tell us the day after they introduce it... Not that im cynical mind

Good to see you back posting on TFF @matthew

Not me. It's my shadow. I'm gone now.....

 

[Werzle]

Never been any logic to their figures, I guess they are using barrener prices as well and of course that will include a lot of very bony cattle including dairy cows that have been culled the last few weeks due to lack of grass.

No way in a TB hotspot area you can farm sucklers if that is all they are paying for suckler cows.

NFU really need to challenge where they have got the figure of £669 head from and ask for a breakdown of how they have come to this price.

They shouldnt be averaging sucklers on prices for barren milkers and i wouldnt think they are. There earning a fortune stealing sucklers at £669 and selling them to the slaughterhouse, £300+ mark up .

 

[gone up the hill]

They shouldnt be averaging sucklers on prices for barren milkers and i wouldnt think they are. There earning a fortune stealing sucklers at £669 and selling them to the slaughterhouse, £300+ mark up .

Depends how they collate the figures given to them, for example they may have no way of being able to split dairy v suckler cull cow prices thus just use the average across the board.

 

[Werzle]

Somebody tag Guy smith into this thread and draw the NFU's attention to the situation please.

 

[gone up the hill]

Somebody tag Guy smith into this thread and draw the NFU's attention to the situation please.

@Guy Smith

 

[Henarar]

There earning a fortune stealing

several million a year or so I was told

 

[neilo]

Depends how they collate the figures given to them, for example they may have no way of being able to split dairy v suckler cull cow prices thus just use the average across the board.

Iirc they use average prices for each class of stock, split into age groups and suckers, dairy, etc. Fat prices have nothing to do with it AFAIA, just breeding/store sales.
The average will obviously include those 3 titted thin cows that drag any sale average down, but then those cows also benefit from the same valuation if they get TB.

 

[gone up the hill]

Iirc they use average prices for each class of stock, split into age groups and suckers, dairy, etc. Fat prices have nothing to do with it AFAIA, just breeding/store sales.
The average will obviously include those 3 titted thin cows that drag any sale average down, but then those cows also benefit from the same valuation if they get TB.

Cull cow average for sucklers will be well over £800 head,

Local dispersal sale last week cow and calve outfits ( young calves ) averaged over £1200 head and that includes everything from a barrener to old cows/ young cows etc, take off £300 for the calve makes the cow worth £900 so cant see where they can get an average of £669 head and at previous sales this summer most cows have been making £1300/1500 head which is well up on last year.

Try buying a herd of mixed aged in calve suckler cows for an average of £669 head, cant be done unless you are buying a herd of Dexters!

 

[neilo]

Cull cow average for sucklers will be well over £800 head,

Local dispersal sale last week cow and calve outfits ( young calves ) averaged over £1200 head and that includes everything from a barrener to old cows/ young cows etc, take off £300 for the calve makes the cow worth £900 so cant see where they can get an average of £669 head and at previous sales this summer most cows have been making £1300/1500 head which is well up on last year.

Try buying a herd of mixed aged in calve suckler cows for an average of £669 head, cant be done unless you are buying a herd of Dexters!

All very well quoting dispersal of decent cows, but ‘average’ market prices will include prices made of those Dexter’s you mention, as well as all those ‘rare for a reason’ cattle.

Don’t shoot the messenger, the whole tabular valuation system was inherently wrong from the start. To suggest that all animals of the same age are worth the same is just plain insulting to anyone that has ever strived to improve stock.

 

[gone up the hill]

All very well quoting dispersal of decent cows, but ‘average’ market prices will include prices made of those Dexter’s you mention, as well as all those ‘rare for a reason’ cattle.

Don’t shoot the messenger, the whole tabular valuation system was inherently wrong from the start. To suggest that all animals of the same age are worth the same is just plain insulting to anyone that has ever strived to improve stock.

Yep I agree but the point being made is that the current valuation of £669 head is way off the average price of sucklers currently including all the above, should be at least £200 head higher and quite rightly questions are being asked why the current table valuation is so out of kilter with actual prices and so out of kilter to an extent that hasn't been seen since tabular valuations were introduced.

Would be akin to say cull ewes making an average of £50 head and the official reports putting it at £30 head for example.

 

[matthew]

Cull cow average for sucklers will be well over £800 head,

Local dispersal sale last week cow and calve outfits ( young calves ) averaged over £1200 head and that includes everything from a barrener to old cows/ young cows etc, take off £300 for the calve makes the cow worth £900 so cant see where they can get an average of £669 head and at previous sales this summer most cows have been making £1300/1500 head which is well up on last year.

Try buying a herd of mixed aged in calve suckler cows for an average of £669 head, cant be done unless you are buying a herd of Dexters!

I believe 'market' prices as used in tabular valuations are just that and do not include dispersal sales held on farm. So the class of animal, beef or dairy and age is the only split on tabular, unless there are not enough animals sold via markets to acheieve a price. In which case a valuer may be involved..
Thus as @neilo says, a pedigree holstein with generations of EX/VG behind her is 'valued' by age the same as an over age jersey house cow, who just happens to have a certificate - somewhere.
And a scrag end rare-for-a-reason lawn mower is valued equally with a top end S.Devon brood cow.

Alpacas are now 'valued' across the board @ £750, which is great for those who have bought for £250 but not so good if you've paid £20K.

 

[applejack]

Not wishing to disagree @matthew but I was always led to believe that on farm dispersals and market averages were lumped together for the valuation table and then split into pedigree and non pedigree categories.