TE20 P3 Conversion - winter project

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
Looks like QTP do a kit that would allow me to fit the later 35/135 oil pump to my P3 - as far as I can see I would only modification I would have to do is to remove the old mesh strainer that I have on my sump (item 7) , replacing it with the more modern strainer pipe that is attached to the suction pipe (item 8)

1614066922617.png
 

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
Re oil, I would keep with 20-50, anything thinner just seems to loose pressure when nice and warm. Have been using 20-50 in all my match ploughing Fergies and they hold good pressure hot or cold now. I wouldnt use anything else.
Re spring pressure I am not overly familiar with the P3 pump more used to the 3 pot 35 engine but you can just pack the spring, we used to do it on the mini engines, put a washer or two behind it increases the spring pressure.
Recon your honed bores will be perfectly fine
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
Re oil, I would keep with 20-50, anything thinner just seems to loose pressure when nice and warm. Have been using 20-50 in all my match ploughing Fergies and they hold good pressure hot or cold now. I wouldnt use anything else.
Re spring pressure I am not overly familiar with the P3 pump more used to the 3 pot 35 engine but you can just pack the spring, we used to do it on the mini engines, put a washer or two behind it increases the spring pressure.
Recon your honed bores will be perfectly fine

The pump in my P3 is almost identical, but its not quite the same. Incidentally DiPerk did come back to me and have confirmed that the exact pump is discontinued, but that a later A3.152 pump will fit, but that I will have to modify the suction & delivery and pipes like i had already figured out. I have the kit on on order so hopefully if it arrives I'll have ago at it over the weekend. If I can't get the new pump to fit then I'll go about testing the old relief valve with a compressed air set up and re-set the pressure relief valve as you described.
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
Update

The pump fits as expected, however the delivery pipe doesn't ☹

The original pump used 1/2 pipes, the a3.152 uses 5/8 pipes and the union nut that screws into the block is of course a different size.

I had a play with the old pump, and the relief valve was indeed weak and I have now adjusted that to 60psi as per specifications. However I would still much rather fit the new pump if possible now its apart again.

So it seems what I need is some sort of 1/2bsp male to 5/8bsp female adaptor that I can fit to the block to take the 5/8 pipe, there is room to do something there by shortening the pipe. Or alternatively I could braze some of the old 1/2 pipe to the 5/8 pipe, the 1/2 fits snuggly into the 5/8 pipe, but I’d prefer a proper fitting. Or any other suggestions welcome?

Some photos attached that shows the difference between both pumps
 

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TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
Update

The pump fits as expected, however the delivery pipe doesn't ☹

The original pump used 1/2 pipes, the a3.152 uses 5/8 pipes and the union nut that screws into the block is of course a different size.

I had a play with the old pump, and the relief valve was indeed weak and I have now adjusted that to 60psi as per specifications. However I would still much rather fit the new pump if possible now its apart again.

So it seems what I need is some sort of 1/2bsp male to 5/8bsp female adaptor that I can fit to the block to take the 5/8 pipe, there is room to do something there by shortening the pipe. Or alternatively I could braze some of the old 1/2 pipe to the 5/8 pipe, the 1/2 fits snuggly into the 5/8 pipe, but I’d prefer a proper fitting. Or any other suggestions welcome?

Some photos attached that shows the difference between both pumps
Something like this maybe?
https://flowtech.co.uk/product/KRRB10-8

Edit.... Wrong link!
https://flowtech.co.uk/category/sec...s-kr500/unequal-bspp-male-x-bspp-male-60-cone
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES

Yes, thats what i am thinking, 5/8-1/2bsp adapter.

5/8 with a dowty washer into the pump, then I could trim my existing 1/2 pipe down and fit it with a new olive onto the 1/2bsp thread. I just need to ensure it all fits up and it doesn’t foul on the crank before go mad with the hacksaw
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
Couple of days off from the day job so I managed to get a few hours on it again this afternoon.

Swapping the oil pump out for a new one has been a total success, near 70psi on cold tick over now, a massive improvement on the previous 30psi, huge relief in a way as well. Whilst 30psi wasn't the end of the world, I was disappointed in it and expected much better. Thankfully as suspected the culprit was the pump and nothing else.

In the end the only real way of doing the modification to fit the 135 type pump was to cut and braze both pipes. I searched the net for ages for a more mechanical solution, looking for different size inverted tube nuts etc, but there was nothing I could find readily available that would have done it. Any type of compression fitting was also out of the question as there was just not enough room under the crank or up the side of the sump to fit one, so a cut and braze was the only solution. Still happy with the result.

I had borrowed the gas bottles from work as I can no longer justify my own (especially since i can just lend them whenever I need), so whilst the gas was out I also set about straightening the radius rods. They were in quite a state as the photo comparing both show. Took a bit of heating and some press work to get them straight again, but very happy with the result. Onto the front axle carrier now, that needs a bit of repairing as well.
 

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H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
The bonnet is back on and its been on a small run this afternoon. Its running really sweet and i am very happy with it. Exhaust nice and clear once it up to temp and it starts with the flick of the starter after some gentle heat from cold.

Plenty of other jobs to do to get it up to scratch, (brakes being the next priority) but at least its useable now so I can use it this summer to keep the grass down around the house. The other jobs can all be done around fortnightly mowing as and when I find the time and motivation to do them. Looking forward to giving it some real work as its not done anything in anger for over a decade.

Forgot to add, the oil pressure is just over 50psi on tick-over when at operating temperature, so it was well worth the effort in making the modification and retrofitting the 135 oil pump.
 

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Last edited:

e3120

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
The bonnet is back on and its been on a small run this afternoon. Its running really sweet and i am very happy with it. Exhaust nice and clear once it up to temp and it starts with the flick of the starter after some gentle heat from cold.

Plenty of other jobs to do to get it up to scratch, (brakes being the next priority) but at least its useable now so I can use it this summer to keep the grass down around the house. The other jobs can all be done around fortnightly mowing as and when I find the time and motivation to do them. Looking forward to giving it some real work as its not done anything in anger for over a decade.

Forgot to add, the oil pressure is just over 50psi on tick-over when at operating temperature, so it was well worth the effort in making the modification and retrofitting the 135 oil pump.
Would you mind taking a pic of the rear of the bonnet? Dad has been working on one and is fashioning a panel for in front of the steering wheel. It appears that it needs a step in it, guessing an inch, but still will be a finger-trapper. Ta.

Tbh, your bonnet doesn't look as high - has the fuel tank been doctored to lower it?
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
Would you mind taking a pic of the rear of the bonnet? Dad has been working on one and is fashioning a panel for in front of the steering wheel. It appears that it needs a step in it, guessing an inch, but still will be a finger-trapper. Ta.

Tbh, your bonnet doesn't look as high - has the fuel tank been doctored to lower it?

See attached

Fuel tank is standard as far as I can tell, certainly looks original.

Heard many people talk about hitting your knuckles on the bonnet but can’t say I have ever found it to be an issue for me

let me know if you need any more photos or measurements
 

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H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
I decided to make a start on the brakes as the flail isn't due until the end of the month and got a bit carried away 🙄.

The brakes are in great shape overall, just need a good clean a set of linings and half shaft seals.

So I decided to whip off the top cover for a good look at the hydraulics.They did work fine but i do remember that they were not all that strong, it wouldn’t lift the front end up like our 35’s do (not sure if it should do to be honest?) but the arms would stay up for days without running the engine. No evidence of any water but the system was full of crap and some very light scores on the pump pistons, although the lift cylinder looks perfect.

So looks like a pump kit will be required along with a very good clean up set of gaskets and a draft repair kit.
 

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tomlad

Member
Location
nr. preston
For the ones ive messed with urs hydraulic chamber is very dirty.
Crap entering thru draft spring ? ?
Have u unscrewed that yet , there good at snapping, fine thread.
Ive used a pump up weed sprayer b4 with paraffin as a washer, or if uve a hot washer....
I didn't want to leave water in that particular tank , it was a oil tank on my chipper , u have to decide whats worse i guess.

What ever is left over not ideal but better than full.of rust ??
Have fun.
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
For the ones ive messed with urs hydraulic chamber is very dirty.
Crap entering thru draft spring ? ?
Have u unscrewed that yet , there good at snapping, fine thread.
Ive used a pump up weed sprayer b4 with paraffin as a washer, or if uve a hot washer....
I didn't want to leave water in that particular tank , it was a oil tank on my chipper , u have to decide whats worse i guess.

What ever is left over not ideal but better than full.of rust ??
Have fun.

Yes it’s very dirty. I haven’t taken top cover apart yet its all destined for the parts washer in work next week.

Like you say I think the draft spring is the culprit of the dirt / moisture so I will order a full repair kit for the draft linkage as I plan to cut the bar thats in the spring as I cannot see that coming apart without serious risk of damaging the fork which I want to avoid at all costs

I have a hand sprayer thats quite powerful that I fill with brake cleaner fluid, that will sort the chamber itself out in no time
 

tomlad

Member
Location
nr. preston
Worth trying to unscrew , nowt to loose eh
Heat will b ur friend but trying to get heat past the spring......

Then copper slip on re assembly.

Didn't know there was a rebuild kit ?
I've just made a rubber washer from belting
I Think the 3 hole tin plate is available
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
Worth trying to unscrew , nowt to loose eh
Heat will b ur friend but trying to get heat past the spring......

Then copper slip on re assembly.

Didn't know there was a rebuild kit ?
I've just made a rubber washer from belting
I Think the 3 hole tin plate is available

Kits as below are available, this was in stock this morning, hopefully the one I have in my basket is still allocated to me. Other suppliers do do them as well.


I cannot see it coming apart easily to be honest, ill try some gentle persuasion but thats about it. Don’t want to risk damaging the fork as I don’t think they are available new
 

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
Kits as below are available, this was in stock this morning, hopefully the one I have in my basket is still allocated to me. Other suppliers do do them as well.


I cannot see it coming apart easily to be honest, ill try some gentle persuasion but thats about it. Don’t want to risk damaging the fork as I don’t think they are available new
Yes, I would just cut it off, you can get a cutting disc down in between the spring and it'll come out fine, you'll probably find the lower two bolts on the triangle seized, i have found the best way (if they dont snap the heads off) is to grind the heads off, then take the triangle plate etc off then weld some decent nuts onto the stubs, the heat normally then allows them to be undone as normal, and often if you weld the nut on nicely these can then be re-used.
I normally hone the lift cylinder bore and bang a set of rings in while it's apart.
Pump is easy to rebuild, some have O rings in them and some just use a gasket, O rings dont tend to come in the pump kit (from what I have found) so if yours have them re-use them, if it doesnt it'll pay to get some.
I reassembled one with just the gasket but after some use on a plough it blew through it, so pump out again job!!!
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
Whilst taking it apart it did get me thinking about the past and how the entire land was once farmed by the simple Grey Fergi. It is such a simple design, yet it is probably still is to this day the single most influential technical advance in farming. Whilst today’s modern tractors with all the bells and whistles dwarf it in comparison, the fundamental principle design of the agricultural tractor remains unchanged to this day. I wonder if we will ever see such a change again?
 

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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