TED20 Engine Refurb.

[Vizslaman]

Shellac was a lacquer a bit like varnish.
Furniture restorers and gunsmiths use it on wood to fill minor imperfections

 

[DrWazzock]

Apparently it's excreted by bugs on trees in India and sold as flakes of lac. It's dissolved in ethanol to make Shellac. It was used extensively in engineering as an insulating coating and sealing material.

It's still readily available in arts and craft shops apparently.

Well I never,

 

[Mursal]

Still available click, also locally I'd say .....

The red in colour "Stag" would be another

 

[DrWazzock]

French polish at Homebase is Shellac, I think.

Looking in the bell housing towards the gearbox, it looks a bit sweaty round the input shaft at the gearbox end. I presume the input seal has hardened. If I undo the 4 bolts round that housing I would expect to remove the input shaft tube and find the seal, but is this the case and does it come out easily. Also, is there a danger or losing the alignment of the shaft tube and position. Does it have to be jigged up before retightening the bolts? Basically is it worth doing it for a small leak at the gearbox input shaft? If it requires access in the gearbox side then I don't want to know, as I need to get this finished before lambing time.

 

[Mursal]

Seal should be in the snout of the box, no alignment necessary.
Some shafts wear before the seal, so move the new one a wee bit after emery paper on the shaft to take the wear edge off.

 

[DrWazzock]

Seal should be in the snout of the box, no alignment necessary.
Some shafts wear before the seal, so move the new one a wee bit after emery paper on the shaft to take the wear edge off.

There is a paper gasket between the snout and the gearbox. The thickness of this gasket must surely affect the running clearance or preload on the taper roller bearing set up. Looks like I'll have to get my scissors out and cut out a new one.

Seal is in poor condition. Replacing the bearing as well while I am at it as the surfaces look very matt.

One bolt broken in clutch fork tube on cross-shaft, so just as well we stripped it down.

 

[Mursal]

Try cutting the gasket with a spanner.
Put the snout in the vice, use the spanner as a hammer to mark, then cut the paper.

Corn Flake boxes are ideal, but as it controls bearing load, might be best to use gasket paper.
Warm first to take the dampness out, it will cut easier with the spanner.

 

[DrWazzock]

While the cylinders are out and the loose rust has been cleaned off and it's dry, I am going to paint the inside of the block at the crack with a good coat of Hammerite, leaving the block on its side so the paint doesn't run but has the opportunity to settle into the crack.

Don't know whether it will help it, but feels better. Then JB high heat putty on the outside later.

 

[Mursal]

Good idea ............
Consider putting the inside after painting, it cant do any harm

 

[Ley253]

While the cylinders are out and the loose rust has been cleaned off and it's dry, I am going to paint the inside of the block at the crack with a good coat of Hammerite, leaving the block on its side so the paint doesn't run but has the opportunity to settle into the crack.

Don't know whether it will help it, but feels better. Then JB high heat putty on the outside later.

It may just be me, but I have to say I have never found any of these epoxy metal fillers to be a success. I would recommend an attempt to weld the crack, using a high nickel cast rod, and only welding an inch at a time, and plenishing the weld as it cools. Clean up the end of the bead, and then weld back to it, but no more than an inch at a time. Welding back to the weld every time solves the some what tricky restart problem. Failing that, chain studding will be a permanent, if time consuming repair.

 

[DrWazzock]

It may just be me, but I have to say I have never found any of these epoxy metal fillers to be a success. I would recommend an attempt to weld the crack, using a high nickel cast rod, and only welding an inch at a time, and plenishing the weld as it cools. Clean up the end of the bead, and then weld back to it, but no more than an inch at a time. Welding back to the weld every time solves the some what tricky restart problem. Failing that, chain studding will be a permanent, if time consuming repair.

I agree in principle with what you are saying. If it was my tractor I might try a more permanent repair. However, the customer says the crack has been there for 30 years and hasn't leaked much, just weeps a bit, so he doesn't want to spend on it. So I am just going to do what I can with hammerite and JB high heat putty and he can live with it. We are already risking quite a bit as cylinders might not reseal to seats etc and I just feel that spending even more would be a mistake.

I am a bit concerned that refitting the head might open the crack very slightly so the JB putty will go on after the head has been fitted. Hopefully the hammerite on the inside will remain flexible enough to cope with a bit of movement. It certainly does when it's stuck to my hands. There is still plenty of strength left in the block. Looks like all of the water wasn't drained properly due to sediment blocking drain tap and then frost did the rest.

I have tried welding cast before and didn't get on very well.

 

[Mursal]

First, second and even the third attempt at cast welding will be like that.
Preheat the cast helps a bit, but not much ......

Sounds as though you're getting on grand .........

 

[DrWazzock]

Got the Pistons in the cylinders and the cylinders in the block and the camshaft and tappets back in and the head on. Put Hylomar on copper head gasket and on cylinders bottom seal spectacle gaskets. Looks like they will need it. Reinstalled push rods and rocker shaft.

Torquing up the head nuts and a middle one began to give. Backed it off and put a new nut on. Tightened it as much as dare and then put a lock nut on. Did try to get that stud out but looked like it was going to shear off at the block before it would move so left it. Should have renewed them.

It'll do.

Just waiting for main bearings then can get crank back in.

Living and learning.

 

[DrWazzock]

Tried high heat putty on the crack. Absolutely useless. By the time I'd worked it up it looked like a grey turd, and was about as much use. It wouldn't stick to the metal at all but stuck to my fingers. Maybe it had dried up on the shelf or maybe the metal was just too cold.

So got some SAS liquid metal that comes in two side by side syringes. Squeezed it out, mixed it and spread it on the block on its side so it didn't run off. The crack is in a hollow anyway so the liquid metal slowly flowed level, thick over the crack, tapering to the edges. Seems to set alright and looks fairly tough, so we will see.

Fitted a new bearing in the distributor. Noticed the advance mechanism pivot bushes are a bit worn. Can't find replacements. Does anybody supply them? Look like they are made of some sort of hard plastic, but could be brass or oilite.

Took the screw off the top of the distributor shaft. It's the one with the oil hole in it. Is that shaft packed with felt to act as a wick for the oil, letting out of the holes slowly, or is mine just packed with dust? Thought I'd ask before trying to drill it out. Oil doesn't seem to appear out of the small holes further down, when you put some in the top. Blocked?

Thanks.

 

[Mursal]

Oil held in place by the felt ............
if you hold the distributor drive solid, if you can flick the rotor in the direction of rotation (against spring pressure) and it returns back to where it was, it will be fine. It wont want much ignition advance to run fine.

Sounds as though you are getting on well ...........

 

[DrWazzock]

Oil held in place by the felt ............
if you hold the distributor drive solid, if you can flick the rotor in the direction of rotation (against spring pressure) and it returns back to where it was, it will be fine. It wont want much ignition advance to run fine.

Sounds as though you are getting on well ...........

Thanks. It does return back as you describe so I'll leave it. It's not going to be doing a lot so will be OK.

I'd have the crank in by now if I wasn't missing the flywheel end oil seal. I always forget something, but that should be everything now. Hoping to get sump on and sealed up before the weather gets mild and the condensation and wind returns. The joys of working in old unheated sheds.

My new timing sprockets have no marks on them. Reading the manual it looks like the gist of it is to turn the camshaft so that it is equidistant rotationally between no4 exhaust just closed and inlet just opened then turn crank (with chain off) to put no1 at TDC, and leaving the camshaft fixed, flip the camshaft sprocket about and try different holes so that the chain is a nice fit on the drive side with the crank sprocket, no slack etc.
(For the purposes of this timing set up, valve clearances are set to 20 and 22 thou and a 10 thou feeler is used to detect valve just closed, just opening). I have cobbled up a long arm with a pointer on the end to fit to the camshaft to accurately mark the two valve positions then find the position halfway between.

The manual uses the flywheel for marking the valve positions with the camshaft turned by the chain, but I think it amounts to the same thing. I don't really want to use the flywheel as it isn't so easy to mark or see accurately and it's a clat getting the chain on and off without disturbing the camshaft.

Does this make sense or have I missed something?

 

[Mursal]

That sounds good .............
Brother did valve timing on Leyland trucks back in the day, without marks and they (as far as I can remember) would push down on the valves on Number 4 and the inlet would be opened a bit more than the exhaust (ever so slightly advanced) with the drive train in place at TDC.
But the book will see you right ...............

click for stuff

 

[DrWazzock]

Snapped a bolt (original bolts) off tightening down the main bearings, middle bearing. Managed to get the end out with an eezi out after drilling it while hoovering up the swarf. Manual says 90 to 100 foot pounds. Seems a lot for 1/2" UNC. Bought a new set of bolts and will try again tomorrow. Checked my torque wrench against one in the shop and it seems OK. Also nearly stripped a head nut.

Also does anybody know what the contact breaker max opening should be? Manual says 15 thou in the data section, 10 to 12 thou in the text of the manual.

Any opinions on engine and transmission oil would be welcome. Some say SAE40, others SAE 30, others multigrade. I have plenty of euro fleet 15w40 and and All Farm 3. Some say these have too much detergent action and I should go for 20w/30 universal non detergent oil.

 

[Ley253]

Suggest you google the bolt grade when you get the new ones Correct torque values vary wildly between grades. For example, for grade 5 its 57 lbsf, grade 8, 80, grade L9 105. But these settings change again, depending on the finish , they are for dry zinc coated, its plus 33% for dry steel, and minus 45% for lubricated! Contact breaker 012" should do fine, and as the engine is spotless inside the detergent oil should be fine as well. Friends of Ferguson Heritage may be able to help on the torque question!

 

[DrWazzock]

Googling the bolt torques looks a better option. You would think the manual would assume they were oiled but it doesn't specify this.

It didn't feel right anyway.