Ten year milk price

Happy at it

Member
Location
NI
Feel a spread sheet to punch some numbers coming up, open to all on here for review/input.

Current idea based on a rented 200 acre unit with a cubicle shed needing updating, silage pit and sheds for youngstock/feed straw storage. 250,000 gal slurry store.
120 cows
2 second hand robots, blue with the ability to do some maintenance.
AYR calving flying heard with beef bull running with the cows.
Calves probably sold about 10 weeks, but at whatever age they leave most profit.
Cows looking for something to graze but not silly small, something more like the first cross Holstein Friesians back in the day when they first appeared, if I can find them.
Sheep to graze grass on winter early spring as ground heavy for early grazing.
Setup driven by profit, not milk in tank/number of cows etc.
assume I can get a contract reasonably easy in North Cumbria? (Not investigated this at all).

How's that sound for a start? Basically want to bodge in the cheapest reasonable setup I can into an existing unit.

Tin Hat on......




Sounds good enough, but how secure is the rented land? What price would you expect to pay for it? How much would you feel comfortable borrowing to set a herd up based on rented land? Fair play if you go ahead, but for me this past few years in dairying has been tough and readjusted my expectations.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Personally wouldn't bother trying to graze with robots never seen robots and grazing really been utilised properly as you really still need to give them something in trough. If you want to graze go with a parlour and make good use of grazed grass if you want to have robots close shed door and put all feed in trough from what I've seen that's how to get best from robots.
I've seen plenty of well run grazing robots. But the reason for our choice is due to many factors. You can not just put a robot onto any farm and graze they work best with grazing areas as close as possible. Maybe a new entrant with robots would have a more open mind on them?
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
We did 420 kg MS last year from 400 kg cows. I think I ended up feeding about 750 kg of cake which was above budget but it was cold as fek last spring and nothing grew until may so it's not surprising.
Budgets are only any good on the day you do them but they have to be done. It's like analysing accounts it doesn't matter if they are better or worse than expected as long as you know why.
 

pine_guy

Member
Location
North Cumbria
Sounds good enough, but how secure is the rented land? What price would you expect to pay for it? How much would you feel comfortable borrowing to set a herd up based on rented land? Fair play if you go ahead, but for me this past few years in dairying has been tough and readjusted my expectations.

If you go back up my original post at the start of the thread, the rented land is up on a 10 year FBT. Just got the full details and looks like a landlord clause to end early at 5years but no tenants :banghead: FBT's are new to me, so would take advice there.

How much rent to pay? That's the idea of the thread to decide a milk price to base a budget around, as rent would depend on how much investment to the farm I would need to do. I will offer a rent at a level I think I can make money. Not what I think will be needed to secure the tenancy.

What money I am prepared to invest to start up be that my own or borrowed will depend on what my budget comes out like.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Just got the full details and looks like a landlord clause to end early at 5years but no tenants
Make sure you have tenants improvements within the agreement or you will have invested a load of money for the landlord to say bye bye after 5 years and lift the rental value based upon your improvements.

Tenancy's are still a minefield. Talking to two dairy farm tenants last couple of weeks on old AHA paying less than £35/acre, its no wonder they can make money!
 

pine_guy

Member
Location
North Cumbria
I've seen plenty of well run grazing robots. But the reason for our choice is due to many factors. You can not just put a robot onto any farm and graze they work best with grazing areas as close as possible. Maybe a new entrant with robots would have a more open mind on them?

Well robots interest me as I like the more flexibility time wise/ life style. Do not read that as put them in and let them get on with it, I realise you still have to put the time in with the cows. The reason I am interested in grazing with them is the farm steading sits in the middle of the block of land so reasonably close access to a lot of grazing. I just don't like the idea of the cows being in all the time, this may be my old man rubbing off on me from when we did milk, he lived for the day in spring when all the cattle where out. If I don't go for or get this farm, I still have the option of taking my other (AHA rented - @Sid my rent is much more than £35) farm back dairy. Just if I wanted to graze with robots here. There is only about 20 acres round the farm without crossing a road.
 

Chimera

Member
Location
North Wales
If you go back up my original post at the start of the thread, the rented land is up on a 10 year FBT. Just got the full details and looks like a landlord clause to end early at 5years but no tenants :banghead: FBT's are new to me, so would take advice there.

How much rent to pay? That's the idea of the thread to decide a milk price to base a budget around, as rent would depend on how much investment to the farm I would need to do. I will offer a rent at a level I think I can make money. Not what I think will be needed to secure the tenancy.

What money I am prepared to invest to start up be that my own or borrowed will depend on what my budget comes out like.

I've done my budgets at 25p/l. The bank seem happy enough with that, as do most other dairy farmers I've discussed it with. I think the key is to arrive at a COP that you're happy with. The bank have made it quite clear it should be below 22p.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Well robots interest me as I like the more flexibility time wise/ life style. Do not read that as put them in and let them get on with it, I realise you still have to put the time in with the cows. The reason I am interested in grazing with them is the farm steading sits in the middle of the block of land so reasonably close access to a lot of grazing. I just don't like the idea of the cows being in all the time, this may be my old man rubbing off on me from when we did milk, he lived for the day in spring when all the cattle where out. If I don't go for or get this farm, I still have the option of taking my other (AHA rented - @Sid my rent is much more than £35) farm back dairy. Just if I wanted to graze with robots here. There is only about 20 acres round the farm without crossing a road.
You spend as much if not more time with the cows than with a parlour just your not tied to milking times. I'm aiming for an acre a cow grazing

I've done my budgets at 25p/l. The bank seem happy enough with that, as do most other dairy farmers I've discussed it with. I think the key is to arrive at a COP that you're happy with. The bank have made it quite clear it should be below 22p.
Is this the same bank(s) that have let farmers over stretch themselves when milk was 30ppl but didn't see the crash coming....or the bounce back?
 

pine_guy

Member
Location
North Cumbria
Are you a member of the NFU or TFA both deal with tenants issue and can help with looking through agreements. Some are better than others.

Tfa are very good I would have thought the break clause would be in your favor.

Yeah, I've used the NFU legal advice with mixed results before, ended up opting for paying an agent suggested from a member on here which I was very happy with. Would probably do similar route again, ask the NFU lot and if still unsure, not convinced by the advice, pay the guy I used last time.
 

pine_guy

Member
Location
North Cumbria
this isn't meant to be nasty in anyway way. I hope I have the reputation on here for at least trying to be constructive. so please take this in the sprit it is meant. @pine_guy @Bossfarmer. please go and get some experience in the local area of people carrying out the system that you think will suit either you or the farm. some of your questions/replies would terrify me if I was your bank manager. Sorry

Sorry for the delayed response @lazy farmer. Please rip my ideas to bits, that is what I am putting them up on here for. All constructive discussion is appreciated. I am trying to be as open as possible on here, short of posting the full details of the farm in question, although I know there are a few neighbours that lurk on here will be reading this and know the place in question. So please feel free to let me know what comments scare you, PM if you prefer, you won't offend me I assure you.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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