Tenant autonomy / Landlord expectations

[Tenant Farmer]

Hello,

Firstly, I have registered a second account specifically to post this thread as I would like to remain fairly anonymous.

I am a tenant farmer on a small farm in England. The tenancy is now in the second year of a 5 year FBT.

The landlord lives on site in his old farmhouse, I live elsewhere as I just rent the land and some space in a barn for storing machinery etc.

The landlord comes out and checks what I am doing every time I arrive in the yard. He has taken to sending me critical emails asking why I haven't done certain things yet, that he expects me to have done. Sometimes I arrive intending to do a particular thing, only to find he has already done it for me. If I tell him I'll next be there on Tuesday but don't come 'til Wednesday, he comes out of his house asking me where I got to the day before. If, on the other hand, I were to turn up on the Monday he'll come out saying he wasn't expecting me 'til tomorrow.

I'm finding this rather hard. Yes he helps out, which I do actually appreciate, but I could do without all the grief that goes with it. Also it's a bit much for someone to help out without my asking them, only to then complain that I haven't done things which I now can't do as he has already done them for me.

Now, I completely understand this is a relationship-management issue which only I and he can solve between us. But what I would like to know is whether anyone else has encountered this as a tenant? My general impression is that I feel like his employee, and I don't like that feeling. Does this just go with the territory of renting land from old farmers?

 

[wasted years]

Probably yes.
I suppose you have to ask yourself whether renting the land on the whole is better than not and go from there.
One thing I would say is that in general it is good to keep your enemy's closer than your friends, at least he wants to help you and perhaps you need to learn to manage what you say you are going to do and when you are going to do it.
It could be worse.

 

[ajcc]

Sounds as if he wants to still be active and involved understandable and reasonable unless you paying a competitive open market rent and really don't want any interference. Reckon you need to air your grievances with landlord but that is not without risk that he may decide that "this really isn't working" rather than you just thinking "this is not ideal."

 

[Formatted]

As tenant you have a 'Right to quiet enjoyment' of the land, which basically means your landlord should leave you alone and shouldn't access the property without 48 hours written notice. Great blog on the subject here: http://www.foxwilliams.com/news/704. The law specifically talks about 'interference', which is what is happening in your situation.

But your issue is more complicated and before you do anything, get in touch with the Tenant Farmers Association, I guarantee you won't be the first person with this problem. www.tfa.org.uk

 

[glasshouse]

Hello,

Firstly, I have registered a second account specifically to post this thread as I would like to remain fairly anonymous.

I am a tenant farmer on a small farm in England. The tenancy is now in the second year of a 5 year FBT.

The landlord lives on site in his old farmhouse, I live elsewhere as I just rent the land and some space in a barn for storing machinery etc.

The landlord comes out and checks what I am doing every time I arrive in the yard. He has taken to sending me critical emails asking why I haven't done certain things yet, that he expects me to have done. Sometimes I arrive intending to do a particular thing, only to find he has already done it for me. If I tell him I'll next be there on Tuesday but don't come 'til Wednesday, he comes out of his house asking me where I got to the day before. If, on the other hand, I were to turn up on the Monday he'll come out saying he wasn't expecting me 'til tomorrow.

I'm finding this rather hard. Yes he helps out, which I do actually appreciate, but I could do without all the grief that goes with it. Also it's a bit much for someone to help out without my asking them, only to then complain that I haven't done things which I now can't do as he has already done them for me.

Now, I completely understand this is a relationship-management issue which only I and he can solve between us. But what I would like to know is whether anyone else has encountered this as a tenant? My general impression is that I feel like his employee, and I don't like that feeling. Does this just go with the territory of renting land from old farmers?

Is it grass?
some old farmers cant let go, just ask their sons.

 

[Tenant Farmer]

Thank you to everyone who has replied.

First of all, I'm actually very grateful to my landlord as he has provided me with a lot of help along the way, and of course chose to rent the farm to me rather than anyone else. I'm just trying to gauge whether his expectations are "normal" for a tenant. How much autonomy do tenants normally have? Or does it vary as much as farms and people vary?

I think a big part of it is his not wanting to let go, and still be involved. Like I have said, this isn't entirely unwelcome, but as a new entrant to farming I don't have anything to compare with in respect of the degree to which he interferes or expresses opinions on what should be happening and when.

As @wasted years says above - at the end of the day I could just give notice as per the terms of the tenancy and walk away from it.

 

[Formatted]

How much autonomy do tenants normally have? Or does it vary as much as farms and people vary?

Most landlords have little to no involvement in the day to day running of the farm.

 

[yellow belly]

tread carefully as you will want to renew at the end of the tenancy
so be diplomatic also be thankfull you have a land lord who is interested in the land if he farmed the land he will find giving up very difficult as said many farmers sons have the same issues with fathers even if they pay a rent
some agents can be just as annoying always checking up on tenants not had that problem my self

 

[7610 super q]

As said a few posts above, the chap obviously can't let go......and why should he, it's his farm.
The question is, do you want the land badly enough to put up with his meddling ?

 

[Vincent]

I think I would tolerate him as two heads are better than one in most matters. His experience is there to be used to get the best out of that farm. May be involved him a bit in some decisions and it may be a help but if he is being a Dick tell him to get the flock and do it you're own way.

 

[joe soapy]

I think I would tolerate him as two heads are better than one in most matters. His experience is there to be used to get the best out of that farm. May be involved him a bit in some decisions and it may be a help but if he is being a Dick tell him to get the flock and do it you're own way.

He is obviously feeling withdrawel symptons, play your cards right and you will get a lot of help from him, just keep asking him to to more untill he says no.
Just dont take him for granted, and above all if you ask him to get the sheep in make sure you turn up!

 

[Forever Fendt]

He is obviously feeling withdrawel symptons, play your cards right and you will get a lot of help from him, just keep asking him to to more untill he says no.
Just dont take him for granted, and above all if you ask him to get the sheep in make sure you turn up!

Sounds like if you play your cards right you could end up with the lot,obviously no family interested in the farm,you just need to manage the situation correctly

 

[Tenant Farmer]

Thank you to everyone who replied.

It's a difficult one. As @Forever Fendt says, there is no family interested (as far as I know), and I took the tenancy on knowing the farm will be left to a charity in his will when the time comes. I actually prefer this, as I really wouldn't want people thinking I'd sought out a tenancy on the basis I might inherit it - I'm not a gold digger.

There is a fine line between being able to ask his advice and having him help me out; vs. him ordering me around and checking up on me. I guess it's just a case of finding out our own roles and him learning to step away slightly.

 

[heritagefarmer]

This is really refreshing to read, I feel I am in a very similar position and although I acknowledge my landlords genuine desire to help me and see me succeed, we both come from very different backgrounds in all ways and as it is my money on the line, i feel that i should survive (or not) by my own decisions.

My personal thought is if you are paying a reasonable rent the land lord should keep out of the day to day running, attachment issues or not.

 

[Forever Fendt]

Sounds like if you play your cards right you could end up with the lot,obviously no family interested in the farm,you just need to manage the situation correctly

Its happened around here and now offspring who did not give a fudge are kicking of

 

[Formatted]

My personal thought is if you are paying a reasonable rent the land lord should keep out of the day to day running, attachment issues or not.

If you have an FBT it is a legal requirement they keep out of the way. Its called 'Right to a quiet life'

 

[sensiblefarmer]

Hello,

Firstly, I have registered a second account specifically to post this thread as I would like to remain fairly anonymous.

I am a tenant farmer on a small farm in England. The tenancy is now in the second year of a 5 year FBT.

The landlord lives on site in his old farmhouse, I live elsewhere as I just rent the land and some space in a barn for storing machinery etc.

The landlord comes out and checks what I am doing every time I arrive in the yard. He has taken to sending me critical emails asking why I haven't done certain things yet, that he expects me to have done. Sometimes I arrive intending to do a particular thing, only to find he has already done it for me. If I tell him I'll next be there on Tuesday but don't come 'til Wednesday, he comes out of his house asking me where I got to the day before. If, on the other hand, I were to turn up on the Monday he'll come out saying he wasn't expecting me 'til tomorrow.

I'm finding this rather hard. Yes he helps out, which I do actually appreciate, but I could do without all the grief that goes with it. Also it's a bit much for someone to help out without my asking them, only to then complain that I haven't done things which I now can't do as he has already done them for me.

Now, I completely understand this is a relationship-management issue which only I and he can solve between us. But what I would like to know is whether anyone else has encountered this as a tenant? My general impression is that I feel like his employee, and I don't like that feeling. Does this just go with the territory of renting land from old farmers?

On the whole it seems to me to be the makings of a decent relationship.
If you can "talk" to him great, if not you have to find a way to clear the air. But above all show a willingness and keenness in the farm and opportunity.
Thank him for having faith in letting his farm to you (don't a***lick(you're not a landagent) just appreasiation).
Point out that you need to learn from your mistakes and perhaps use him as a sounding post for ideas. Draw upon his experiences. Above all you guys must talk!
If things work out then I bet in months ahead he will sing you praises to others.

 

[little_p]

I've seen it from the other side; aged farmer who has lived and breathed his farm all his life, now got nothing more to do than watch repeats on the Horse and Country Channel on TV and look out of the window and see that slightly lame ewe that you said that you pop over and have a look at yesterday. So when you do turn up 'late', or that he gone and sorted it himself you get it with both barrels.

This particular gentleman had formed a series of expectations of his tenant, how certain things should be done, how quickly they should be done etc - not that he had bothered to communicate these to the tenant you understand!

Therefore as others have said, it is down to communication; find out what his expectations are and adhere to them or try to manage him / them accordingly. In this particular case using loose language helped such as "I'll be back in the next couple of days" or turning up at different times and days seemed to mean that the farmer was more relaxed about things.

 

[Tenant Farmer]

Thanks for everyone's comments on this thread. It seems I am far from alone in this, and reading elsewhere on the forum it's either tenant-landlord situations, or father-son.

I'm guessing time will sort it out - either one of us will get pee'd off and walk away from it (if me) or serve notice to quit (if it's him); or he'll settle down and back off a bit once he sees that I'm getting things established.

Thinking back, the main tension started when I made a gentle suggestion that he could sell off some of his old machinery which is taking up space in the yard. He went into overdrive and told me he certainly would not be renewing the lease at the end of the current term. This was a really stupid thing to do on his part, as clearly now I have lost interest in doing some long term things. There are ditches that need doing, and I was going to get compost spread on a couple of fields, but now I'm thinking why should I bother as there's nothing in the tenancy about either of these.

It's left me in a bit of a stasis for the next 3 years though.

 

[glasshouse]

You will need to get back in his good books somehow and get good at biting your tongue.