Tenant farming costs, complete newbie basic questions

Location
southwest
Most annual lets are for cattle or sheep only. Anything longer will require a viable business play, proof of funds etc.

TBH, what you seem to have in mind is not a full time job (and certainly not enough to earn a living)

Have you got another source of income?
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
Most annual lets are for cattle or sheep only. Anything longer will require a viable business play, proof of funds etc.

TBH, what you seem to have in mind is not a full time job (and certainly not enough to earn a living)

Have you got another source of income?
Ahhh that's good to know! Thanks.
No, wouldn't be a full time job of jumping in with both feet, it would be a slow build up project.
Yes, I have a very well paid job to be fair that allows me a great deal of latitude but not as much as I'd like of course :)
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
What’s your motivation? You’ve started one thread about pigs and one about chickens, and seem to have no experience or clue about either.
As in why do I want to start a farm?
Other than I can't sing or dance! I've always liked the lifestyle and being outside. I've a few friends that are farmers, some with vineyards and some own campsites etc and while the hours are long and the income seems less than ideal at times, they always say they wouldn't do anything else.

No, I've no clue about the nuances and that changes with questions and research. If I only did what I know, then I'd never have done anything after school. :)
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Taking it that you're on the level....

The difference between renting a few acres for chickens, through to land with house attached, is a yawning chasm.
If you've also an interest in pigs, that's another yawning chasm....pigs chew land up really well, both will have major effect on subsequent usage.
The grazing licences/land under agreements described above simply wouldn't be available to the use you're planning.

Any landowner with something to let, and looking at this, will be quietly backing away.
Any agent you approach - and most such deals would be going via an agent- would almost certainly be gently putting your application to the bottom of the pile, if there are also parties interested who've more background knowledge.
It is nothing personal, it is merely working the numbers for the safest outcomes.

Despite the simple rural idyll of the minds eye, there are a million variations and details which none of us can succinctly answer for you on this forum.

Your best bet, if you're determined, is to approach people directly - you say you have friends in farming...go to them first.
Even better, as said, go and work in the industry for a year or two, see how things are done.
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
Very much on the level :)

I'm not daunted by the task and would never make a business case based on a few hours on a forum :)

This is one of many strands I'm looking at as a research tool, and very valuable it's proving to be.

I don't take things personally, unless it's personal :) business is business at the end of the day, along with ethics and civility.

That's all solid advice and much appreciated, it was the conclusion I'd come to on the purchase plan to be fair.

This education was born from asking about £100 an acre comment but it never stated a time period, so I thought I'd ask.

I'd never expect an in-depth understanding of all the various issues, challenges and options in farming from the stock, the land, the regulation and all the millions of variations that each one would bring. I've no doubt the information that each of you have would fill a book!

Just answers to basic questions that I can then go and research and or apply practical time to.

Some advice, warnings, tips and guidance to look up elsewhere.

This has been invaluable :) thank you, I've a lot of reading to do ;)
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Bear in mind that there's a big difference between renting bare land (ie with no house or buildings attached) and renting a complete farm. The former might be achieved for £100/acre, and it should be possible to rent the sort of acreage you're looking for on that basis. Whether anyone would take you on as a tenant on the basis of your plans is another matter, but such rentals are available.

Whereas complete farms with houses and farm buildings that are up for rent will usually have considerably more land attached than than the 30 acres you're talking about, and will end up far more expensive because of the additional assets you're getting control of, a house plus buildings as well as land. People renting out such assets will require a lot of assurances about the bona fides of the prospective tenant, their financial status, the solidity of their business plans etc etc. When farms are up for rent there are usually a lot of applicants, almost all of which will either be former tenants of other farms, locals trying to expand their own farming operations, or possible new entrants with lots of farming experience, ie serious applicants who have operated in the industry for many years. Jotting a few numbers down on the back of an envelope and offering a some headline figure of rent (however large that number might be) as a complete newcomer to the industry will result in only one thing, your application being chucked out as soon as its read. Sorry but thats the reality.

If you want to make your fortune in chicken (or pigs) then go and work on a chicken (or pig) farm for a few years and gain some experience of what is actually involved. Then you'll have a better idea of what you need to be doing to start your own business.
 

curlietailz

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Sedgefield
Very much on the level :)

I'm not daunted by the task and would never make a business case based on a few hours on a forum :)

This is one of many strands I'm looking at as a research tool, and very valuable it's proving to be.

I don't take things personally, unless it's personal :) business is business at the end of the day, along with ethics and civility.

That's all solid advice and much appreciated, it was the conclusion I'd come to on the purchase plan to be fair.

This education was born from asking about £100 an acre comment but it never stated a time period, so I thought I'd ask.

I'd never expect an in-depth understanding of all the various issues, challenges and options in farming from the stock, the land, the regulation and all the millions of variations that each one would bring. I've no doubt the information that each of you have would fill a book!

Just answers to basic questions that I can then go and research and or apply practical time to.

Some advice, warnings, tips and guidance to look up elsewhere.

This has been invaluable :) thank you, I've a lot of reading to do ;)

If your keeping livestock You also need to look at all the Animal health regulations, vaccination programmes, deadstock disposal, movement licences, sort out a good relationship with a large animal vet, farm business accountant, food heigene regs, Red Tractor Assurances, find an abbatoir, keep within the Environment Agency rules for water/avoidance of pollution, NVZ regulations, ELMs , SFI, BPS and a whole list of other rules and regulations
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
Speaking as an FBT tenant, and assuming you can afford it, just buy some where. Don't spend your life improving some one else's farm (with ever increasing rents) if you can afford your own.
That was very much my thinking, but I was "intrigued" at the very low rates and wanted to know more. If I did find someone that wanted to let an area, it would be as a "toe dip" as nothing beats doing something. I have a few meetings coming up with friends that own land (arable, bunkhouse with camping, beef and another with a vineyard) over a few glasses of red to look at the SWOT analysis of each. We tend to then butcher (pardon the pun again) each other's business plans in a constructive end.
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
If your keeping livestock You also need to look at all the Animal health regulations, vaccination programmes, deadstock disposal, movement licences, sort out a good relationship with a large animal vet, farm business accountant, food heigene regs, Red Tractor Assurances, find an abbatoir, keep within the Environment Agency rules for water/avoidance of pollution, NVZ regulations, ELMs , SFI, BPS and a whole list of other rules and regulations
Fabulous! I have most of those but you have brought up a few (and in other business I've found that lacking just one can demolish a years work) that I haven't started to research :)

I'm deeply appreciative of you taking the time to pass this information on, seriously, that's great stuff.

My plan goes through a process with friends before going to specialists for review. I will be looking up agri-business consultants (based on reviews from friends), along with a agri-business legal and planning consultant.

And of course, getting my hands dirty on a few farms - it's not a quick process by any stretch and neither is it risk free.
 

Wisconsonian

Member
Trade
I've never even been to the UK, but if you were looking to raise a several hundred chickens and gain farm experience, then the logical suggestion would be to find a "situation", somebody that needed help and had housing and a spare acre or two for the chickens. They would not need to be keen on chickens, as much as willing to accommodate hard to get labor. The acre or two for the chickens could be in rotation with sheep, cattle, that's a common "free range/natural/pastured poultry" strategy here (Joel Salatin). I would think there would be someone who could provide what you're looking for in exchange for labor, and it certainly wouldn't have to be even half time. If you're flexible it could be something like weekends relief, or a month while they're gone, etc. The hard part is how to find that person.

The usual order is to buy the farm, a small tractor, a couple horses, maybe a llama, then come onto a forum like this and ask how to make it all work. So you're way ahead of the curve as far as that goes.
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
The usual order is to buy the farm, a small tractor, a couple horses, maybe a llama, then come onto a forum like this and ask how to make it all work. So you're way ahead of the curve as far as that goes.
Thank you :), I've been in business for a while now, but not in the farming "field" (will these puns ever stop?).

Yes, I'm aware of Joel and have spoken to him a few times, absolutely sterling gent! I loved his mobile chicken coop and dolly pull system that layered the inter-species aspect to maintain the soil and his knowledge on pathogenicity was insightful.

Looking at your idea, it looks very viable and of course I'd have to look at the logistics and labour of the more management intensive system of moving the coop each day, not an impossible task by any stretch of the imagination.

As a side note, my daughter already wants a llama and that you brought it up did make me chuckle!
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 78 42.9%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 63 34.6%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.5%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 5 2.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top