Tenant farming costs, complete newbie basic questions

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife

The third way (to misquote my least favourite prime minister ever) is to work with someone like kingclere estate on a joint venture.

Would still require more knowledge and experience than you appear to have, but less expensive than buying and maybe more security than straight renting.
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
The third way (to misquote my least favourite prime minister ever) is to work with someone like kingclere estate on a joint venture.

Would still require more knowledge and experience than you appear to have, but less expensive than buying and maybe more security than straight renting.
That's very true, a co-venture does offer less risk and depending on the other parties stipulations, could prove be fruitful. Thank you for the link-up! :)
 

Cowmansam

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Shropshire
Hens and pigs you won’t make a penny unless your selling them direct to the public if your after a hobby crack on should wash its face or only lose a bit if you have the means I would just buy a few acres and have a go nobody will rent you land for hens or pigs they just trash the place
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
Even at this very early stage, it would be pointless to try and raise high-end quality birds for the supermarket monopoly.

You're about as likely to find Aldi Price Match on mine, as you would James691 Quality Match at Aldi.

There seems to be a lot of money soaked up by middlemen or is it middle persons now? So, just the production of the product is a flawed plan without massive numbers or about 9 generations to pay off the infrastructure costs, if you do make a profit. The devil is in the detail and being able to raise (with your own breeding programme, in time), the slaughter and preparation, with the finishing (herb, garlic etc) directly to the customer. Taking control of the management, production, preparation, distribution, sales and development of the strand.

At present, and it has only been a day or so of reading...

Under 10,000 chickens can be slaughtered at the farm. An exemption during Christmas, Easter and Michaelmas where you can do more.
There is also a limitation on the distribution to your own county and 50km from the boundary of your county. For Lancashire (being a large county) this is still a big net to cast. Again, an exemption is placed for Easter, Christmas and Michaelmas where you can sell nationally. Even without that, it would mean that Manchester and Liverpool are in the standard catch net.
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
I've never even been to the UK, but if you were looking to raise a several hundred chickens and gain farm experience, then the logical suggestion would be to find a "situation", somebody that needed help and had housing and a spare acre or two for the chickens. They would not need to be keen on chickens, as much as willing to accommodate hard to get labor. The acre or two for the chickens could be in rotation with sheep, cattle, that's a common "free range/natural/pastured poultry" strategy here (Joel Salatin). I would think there would be someone who could provide what you're looking for in exchange for labor, and it certainly wouldn't have to be even half time. If you're flexible it could be something like weekends relief, or a month while they're gone, etc. The hard part is how to find that person.

The usual order is to buy the farm, a small tractor, a couple horses, maybe a llama, then come onto a forum like this and ask how to make it all work. So you're way ahead of the curve as far as that goes.
I think the two girls who were on the Scottish farming life programme, on a croft do pastured poultry, may be worth looking them up on facebook, they also do starting to farm courses I think too.
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hens and pigs you won’t make a penny unless your selling them direct to the public if your after a hobby crack on should wash its face or only lose a bit if you have the means I would just buy a few acres and have a go nobody will rent you land for hens or pigs they just trash the place
I did an evening class at Gelli Aur, and the fellow teaching the pig section, said he used to make a living breeding pigs, then getting them butchered and selling at farmers markets, however he did say it was a hard way to make a living.
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
I think the two girls who were on the Scottish farming life programme, on a croft do pastured poultry, may be worth looking them up on facebook, they also do starting to farm courses I think too.
Yup :) seen them on Instagram. Very nice setup. I'm looking at a lot of information at the moment from Joel Salatin, Richard Perkins to Gabe Brown and Takota Coen. But you have to get the wellies muddy at some stage and learn "inside" functions of the business.

I start work on Thursday on a 350+ acre pasture farm doing pigs, chickens, cattle and polytunnels. Also doing multi-crop system with no dig.
I have no doubt I will learn a lot... especially dealing with the Environmental Agency!
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
Well, that took 5 months of research and networking. But pleased to say that I have my rented land for chickens, ducks, turkey, pig, goats etc. I'm just working 50 acres at the moment to scale the operation and pitch each strand. The hatcheries and brooder buildings are being done at the same time and will replace livestock over time from day olds.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Well, that took 5 months of research and networking. But pleased to say that I have my rented land for chickens, ducks, turkey, pig, goats etc. I'm just working 50 acres at the moment to scale the operation and pitch each strand. The hatcheries and brooder buildings are being done at the same time and will replace livestock over time from day olds.
Good luck. Well done for making it happen.
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
Thank you. It's something that I've a great passion for and there is a lot of negative voices around the holistic farming on pasture system of the herbivore and plant (soil) symbiosis. So I will try and document my journey with the ups and downs that come with this lifestyle as a new entrant.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Thank you. It's something that I've a great passion for and there is a lot of negative voices around the holistic farming on pasture system of the herbivore and plant (soil) symbiosis. So I will try and document my journey with the ups and downs that come with this lifestyle as a new entrant.
I thought it was all positive and the future?
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
Unfortunately not, I've had a lot of meetings that have been less than productive.
The future, in the immediate terms, is poultry, ducks etc with various strands with our own hatchery and brooder. Market forces will be a driving factor as our niche will be organically grown to degree and we have the resilience to adapt to customer needs.
 

James691

Member
Mixed Farmer
The view this morning as the journey begins. This will be the main chicken tractor section following the cows. 48 hours gap to allow for maggot production in the manure.
20220516_135034.jpg
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Watching this thread with interest! I am at the other end of the spectrum. I am over eighty and have farmed my own place for the last 40 years. Probably what many on here would call a hobby farmer as I bought the house and land very cheaply (£25,000) in the early 80s primarily for dog training and was told I had paid too much for it! My place before that had a two bedroomed house, range of buildings, and 8.5 acres for which I paid £3,000, so I suppose I did!

Then I had to decide what to do with 25 acres of grass. So I've kept sheep, cattle, pigs, chickens, Highland ponies, etc. and a lot of dogs. I also have all the machinery -- 2 tractors, Welger small baler, sheds, and stables, etc. I do have a degree in land management. The land flooded which I corrected, put up 3 miles of fencing (yes, on 25 acres!), and I know the few docks and thistles by their first names. I am always complimented on the state of the place.

One thing I do have which is less desirable is old age. I have tried to let the place, but either get offers from non-starters (remember Alpaca Rescue?) or those expecting stupidity to come with age. There is meant to be some scheme to marry people like me up with young hopefuls (sounds like something the SNFU would do -- badly) looking for a start in farming but never even got a reply.

The local auctioneers say my land should be worth £60 - £100/acre/364 days grazing licence. I answered a 'wanted' ad and was offered £50/acre. I counter offered £65 and the offeror disappeared. I am just about to advertise but will probably get more alpaca rescuers as wouldbe farmers seem to lack initiative, unlike the OP.

So there should be possibilities out there. Possibly some like me reading this. Sadly, I don't suffer fools gladly so that rules a lot out. Meantime, I have made this place my own little piece of heaven and if necessary I will re-wild the lot and let the caravan to Mr Fallowfield (remember him?) to liven things up and keep my brain working.
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
Watching this thread with interest! I am at the other end of the spectrum. I am over eighty and have farmed my own place for the last 40 years. Probably what many on here would call a hobby farmer as I bought the house and land very cheaply (£25,000) in the early 80s primarily for dog training and was told I had paid too much for it! My place before that had a two bedroomed house, range of buildings, and 8.5 acres for which I paid £3,000, so I suppose I did!

Then I had to decide what to do with 25 acres of grass. So I've kept sheep, cattle, pigs, chickens, Highland ponies, etc. and a lot of dogs. I also have all the machinery -- 2 tractors, Welger small baler, sheds, and stables, etc. I do have a degree in land management. The land flooded which I corrected, put up 3 miles of fencing (yes, on 25 acres!), and I know the few docks and thistles by their first names. I am always complimented on the state of the place.

One thing I do have which is less desirable is old age. I have tried to let the place, but either get offers from non-starters (remember Alpaca Rescue?) or those expecting stupidity to come with age. There is meant to be some scheme to marry people like me up with young hopefuls (sounds like something the SNFU would do -- badly) looking for a start in farming but never even got a reply.

The local auctioneers say my land should be worth £60 - £100/acre/364 days grazing licence. I answered a 'wanted' ad and was offered £50/acre. I counter offered £65 and the offeror disappeared. I am just about to advertise but will probably get more alpaca rescuers as wouldbe farmers seem to lack initiative, unlike the OP.

So there should be possibilities out there. Possibly some like me reading this. Sadly, I don't suffer fools gladly so that rules a lot out. Meantime, I have made this place my own little piece of heaven and if necessary I will re-wild the lot and let the caravan to Mr Fallowfield (remember him?) to liven things up and keep my brain working.

Try the Scottish land matching service.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,291
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top