Tenant or landowner ?

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
Whats the price of land in your area?

this has only just come on the market, about 7km as the crow flies, across the plain, from my place

was talking to a friend ( who rents the house on it ) the other day - the consensus was that it is very expensive for what it is . . .


Inglis Rural Property is excited to offer ‘Pullaming’ located on the Mooki River south-east of Gunnedah on the Breeza Plains. Comprising 290* hectares (716 acres) the property offers versatile, highly fertile farming country with a comfortable home, shedding/silos and secure water. Please contact the Marketing Agents for further details. Offered for Private Sale for $3,300,000 #farm #agriculture #liverpoolplains #gunnedah
 
Last edited:

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
this has only just come on the market, about 7km as the crow flies, across the plain, from my place

was talking to a friend ( who rents the house on it ) the other day - the consensus was that it is very expensive for what it is . . .


Inglis Rural Property is excited to offer ‘Pullaming’ located on the Mooki River south-east of Gunnedah on the Breeza Plains. Comprising 290* hectares (716 acres) the property offers versatile, highly fertile farming country with a comfortable home, shedding/silos and secure water. Please contact the Marketing Agents for further details. Offered for Private Sale for $3,300,000 #farm #agriculture #liverpoolplains #gunnedah
What level of mortgage and living would that support?
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
yes, basically most of those large northern cattle stations are leasehold, but very different to the UK model.
While it does cover a large area, it is still only a relatively small % of all farm businesses

they are a "perpetual lease", which means they go on forever, not 99 years as some may think.
The lease can be bought & sold, just as if you were selling freehold land.
In our case, there is no "crown estate", just crown land, which, also in our case, the "crown" being the relevant State Government

this is from Qld, but gives you an idea of rentals. Many "pastoral leases" I believe are a relatively small token rental
Rent determination by rental category
Rental categoryPurposeAnnual rent
11Primary production, including aquaculture, viticulture and agricultureMinimum rent: $272.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
Calculated rent:
Primary production – perpetual leases: 1.5% of the land value
Primary production – term leases, licences and permits to occupy: 0.75% of the land value
The annual rent is capped at no more than 10% above the previous year's annual rent
12ResidentialMinimum rent: $272.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
Calculated rent: 6% of the 3-year average land value
13Business and government core businessMinimum rent: $272.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
Calculated rent: 6% of the 3-year average land value
14.1Charities and small sporting or recreational clubs with no more than 2000 members$132.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
14.2Large sporting or recreational clubs with more than 2000 membersMinimum rent: $132.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
Calculated rent: 5% for the land on which the clubhouse and associated amenities are situated
+
1% for the remainder of the land under the lease
15.1Communication sites (community service activities)$132.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
15.2Communication sites (limited commercial service activities—rural)$6,856.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
15.3Communication sites (limited commercial service activities—urban)$10,193.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
15.4Communication sites (non-community service—rural)$13,719.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
15.5Communication sites (non-community service—urban)$20,576.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
16DivestmentMinimum rent: $272.00 excl. GST
Note: GST may be charged in addition to this fee as per section 448A of the Land Act 1994.
Calculated rent: 7% of the most recent land value


Perpetual Leases can be converted to freehold title & I know that a few years ago NSW had a big campaign to encourage those on leasehold land to convert it to freehold. The theory being i think that they stood to make more money from stamp duty with land being sold in the future, than they did from the leases ?

"In Australia, public lands without a specific tenure (e.g. National Park or State Forest) are referred to as Crown land or State Land, which is described as being held in the 'right of the Crown' of either an individual State or the Commonwealth of Australia; there is not a single 'Crown' (as a legal governmental entity) in Australia (see The Crown). Most Crown lands in Australia are held by the Crown in the right of a State. The only land held by the Commonwealth consists of land in the Northern Territory (surrendered by South Australia), the Australian Capital Territory, Jervis Bay Territory, and small areas acquired for airports, defence and other government purposes.

Each jurisdiction has its own policies towards the sale and use of Crown lands within the State. For example, New South Wales, where over half of all land is Crown land,[1] passed a controversial reform in 2005 requiring Crown lands to be rated at market value.[2] Crown lands include land set aside for various government or public purposes, development, town planning, as well as vacant land. Crown lands comprise around 23% of Australian land, of which the largest single category is vacant land, comprising 12.5% of the land. [3]

Crown land is used for such things as airports, military grounds (Commonwealth), public utilities (usually State), or is sometimes unallocated and reserved for future development.

In Tasmania, Crown land is managed under the Crown Lands Act 1976. In Queensland, Unallocated State Land (USL) is managed under The Land Act 1994. In South Australia, the relevant Act is the Crown Land Management Act 2009. In Victoria,[4] it is the Crown Land (Reserves) Act 1978 and the Land Act 1958."

but yes, privately owned land is also leased, but nothing like the rigidity of the various UK leases, it appears.

A formal lease agreement is usually 3 or 5 years, with an option for another 2 at the end of that period. But the landowner & tenant can basically come to any agreement they like.
A neighbour of mine has Parkinsons disease & i have been leasing his country for a number of years. The initial lease was a formal 5 year legal document, but since then we have just carried on as a year by year arrangement. It will probably carry on like this till he dies. When it does end, I will have access to harvest any crops planted & will be compensated for any costs ( weed control, fertiliser etc etc ) incurred on any fallow country that doesnt have a crop planted. That is an arrangement that suits both parties, there is a lot of flexibility to how you arrange your lease.
Catherine helen spence emigrated to australia as a child with her uncle who had been evicted ffom his farm in scotland.
She went on to be the first female mp in australia, there is a statue to her.
No doubt she ensured that land was fairly distributed down under along with many more In the same boat
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
If the Nazis wanted something - land, businesses, houses - it would force the owner to sell it for a pittance.

Many lost their property this way if they weren’t seen to actively support the Nazis.

It was much more this.
Nazism (fiscally) is basically "gangster capitalism" - if you supported them, then they violently suppressed your competition.
Krupps for example, made £££ under the Nazis.

Maybe you are thinking of forced collectivisation in the soviet era post Lenin and the collapse (with his death) of the new economic policy.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
Its still federal now

In much the same way as we have county councils, although they may well have more legislative powers than our counties.
Either way, I'm pretty sure that the peasantry was in significant decline in Germany by WW1 (although I'm trying to remember my A-Level European history from 1998, so I might be a bit hazy..... :ROFLMAO: )
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
In much the same way as we have county councils, although they may well have more legislative powers than our counties.
Either way, I'm pretty sure that the peasantry was in significant decline in Germany by WW1 (although I'm trying to remember my A-Level European history from 1998, so I might be a bit hazy..... :ROFLMAO: )
Germany still has its peasant farmers, who work at other jobs to make ends meet.
They never had the wholesale evictions like our enclosures act
 

Swarfmonkey

Member
Location
Hampshire
It was much more this.
Nazism (fiscally) is basically "gangster capitalism" - if you supported them, then they violently suppressed your competition.
Krupps for example, made £££ under the Nazis.

Maybe you are thinking of forced collectivisation in the soviet era post Lenin and the collapse (with his death) of the new economic policy.

Damn right about it being "gangster capitalism". My paternal grandfather's family (who were farmers) were outspoken critics of the regime in their home town, to the point where they managed to get themselves categorised as undesirables. Once you were in that group it was open season on you. They were forced through the threat of violence to sell their land to the state for a pittance. That's where it gets real murky though, as by that stage "the state" was a catch-all term that covered the actual state, the party, or individuals within the party. The Gauleiter in that part of the country managed to acquire a vast amount of land that way.

Krupp were up to their neck in it. One of only three businesses (along with IG Farben and Flick) that had their own business-specific trials at Nuremburg after the war.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Could you explain?
Most of the land belonged to no one or everyone up till about 400 yrs ago, then landlords grabbed it all and rented it back to the people at extortionate rents.
So creating vast wealth for them and poverty for everyoone else.
Its called a monopoly.
They initially rented large tracts of bare land to large tenants who had to build houses for themselves and workers, and improve the land.
These people after twenty or so years were evicted, and the landlord assumed ownership of all the improvements, and then rented out it all for a huge increase, thanks to to the labour and capital of the previous tenant.
Probably the greatest theft of capital ever seen.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,292
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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