Terminals for shedders

[neilo]

Honestly though do you not find it slightly strange you’ve had such a high % of such maternally lacking ewes. As much as we jest, you do seem to have managed to pick the absolutely worst selection of exlana ewes in the country. I am starting to wonder if you were sold some proper duffers, because breed loyalty aside I do find them extremely maternal. To the point where mine will try to kill the dogs if they are anywhere near them when they have lambs.

Are yours pure, or bred up?

These are lambing alongside my own Highlander ewes and some Aberfield x Romney ewe lambs I bought (having Exlana X lambs too), all have which have been superb.

 

[Gulli]

The difference is systems and not breeds perhaps?

For the record, I’m not ‘slagging off’ the idea of wool shedding, and obviously invested plenty of cash in the pursuit of that. However, I am absolutely staggered at how bad these particular sheep are maternally, to the extent that I’m wondering if I really should pursue shedders at all, given the minimal choice of shedding genetics available.

I've had some that have been rubbish mums, most have been very good but I suspect it's much more to do with system here than breeding, they like to be left alone outside at lambing. Compared to the easycares I have they are much better mums though

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Are yours pure, or bred up?

These are lambing alongside my own Highlander ewes and some Aberfield x Romney ewe lambs I bought (having Exlana X lambs too), all have which have been superb.

I'd have thought it might make quite a difference if you're breeding up from your existing flock. Reading your posts and @Nithsdale Farmer thread it shows to me that long term selection for the traits you want is more important than breed

If your breeding up over several generations you have the opportunity to do this selection. If you think not having to shear is very important then you have to be prepared to take several steps back before you start going forward again

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

I'd have thought it might make quite a difference if you're breeding up from your existing flock. Reading your posts and @Nithsdale Farmer thread it shows to me that long term selection for the traits you want is more important than breed

If your breeding up over several generations you have the opportunity to do this selection. If you think not having to shear is very important then you have to be prepared to take several steps back before you start going forward again

But all you ever read on here about Exlana's is what wonderful mother's they are and what a rigorous selection process they have been bred up through,so why should he need to take steps back ? Just makes you think there is a HUGE variation between breeders of Exlana's, and perhaps not all operate along the given guide lines,or alternatively perhaps @neilo ain't quite the shepherd he'd have us believe

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

But all you ever read on here about Exlana's is what wonderful mother's they are and what a rigorous selection process they have been bred up through,so why should he need to take steps back ? Just makes you think there is a HUGE variation between breeders of Exlana's, and perhaps not all operate along the given guide lines,or alternatively perhaps @neilo ain't quite the shepherd he'd have us believe

You might think that I couldn't possibly comment

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[SteveHants]

I assume he's been doing it much longer than me and is in all liklihood a better shepherd than me, it just makes me glad I started with the sheep I did, or I might have jacked before circumstances made me.

 

[Sheepfog]

But all you ever read on here about Exlana's is what wonderful mother's they are and what a rigorous selection process they have been bred up through,so why should he need to take steps back ? Just makes you think there is a HUGE variation between breeders of Exlana's, and perhaps not all operate along the given guide lines,or alternatively perhaps @neilo ain't quite the shepherd he'd have us believe

It’s difficult for breeding companies with several individual flocks to keep consistency in what they’re doing in terms of performance, type and equally as important health status.

 

[CopperBeech]

But all you ever read on here about Exlana's is what wonderful mother's they are and what a rigorous selection process they have been bred up through,so why should he need to take steps back ? Just makes you think there is a HUGE variation between breeders of Exlana's, and perhaps not all operate along the given guide lines,or alternatively perhaps @neilo ain't quite the shepherd he'd have us believe

Out of curiosity why did you ignore the response I wrote to the questions you asked me about my sheep ?

 

[CopperBeech]

Are yours pure, or bred up?

These are lambing alongside my own Highlander ewes and some Aberfield x Romney ewe lambs I bought (having Exlana X lambs too), all have which have been superb.

I bought a dose of exlana ewes of Tim, would have been back over ten years ago now. Think I bought 150 ewes, from full mouth to ewe lambs. Other than that, I bought another 150 in from one of the multiplier flocks which had good figures behind them (they were reducing numbers due to loss of ground), again a mixture of full mouth to ewe lambs. My flock has been home bred using the highest index exlana rams bought for specific traits (varying year to year). Up until the last couple of years when some other ‘breeding companies’ have got interested, I had the dubious pleasure of buying the highest index and most expensive rams at the sale each year. Other than experimenting with keeping some x bred (terminal x) ewe lambs and putting them back to the exlana rams (and I’ve not done that for probably 5 years at least), I would say my flock is about as ‘exlana’ as you could get ? We breed and sell ewe lambs and I set two folk up with flocks this year (300 to one, 250 to another) and others in previous years, and so far no complaints from any of them. So I can only presume we are doing an ok job.

I’m not saying they are the best sheep in the whole wide world or there are no bad ones, but for me, on my system, with the sheep I keep, I’ve had the polar opposite experience to you over the last decade. The pay my bills and I enjoy farming them.

 

[CopperBeech]

It’s difficult for breeding companies with several individual flocks to keep consistency in what they’re doing in terms of performance, type and equally as important health status.

This I agree with. You have to be very careful to not let standards slip.

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

Out of curiosity why did you ignore the response I wrote to the questions you asked me about my sheep ?

If I remember correctly you quoted 1200 of your own and 1800 of some one else's, when I asked for their performance figures, you just said what you were hoping yours would achieve, that to my mind wasn't answering my question, but also to me said you couldn't back up what you were claiming, please accept my apologies if I am wrong.

 

[CopperBeech]

If I remember correctly you quoted 1200 of your own and 1800 of some one else's, when I asked for their performance figures, you just said what you were hoping yours would achieve, that to my mind wasn't answering my question, but also to me said you couldn't back up what you were claiming, please accept my apologies if I am wrong.

You asked me what I sold and scan % did you not ? So I’ve given you my scanning figures as a break down across the groups ...... obviously I can’t tell you what I will sell from that yet as I haven’t lambed the sheep (start next week).

I can tell you that the 5 year average losses (other than the one year of the enzo storm) sit at around 15%

I aim to sell 150% lambs to ewes put to the ram. I beat that most years, sitting around the 165%

Out of curiosity why do you have a problem with the breed ? I’ve never claimed them to be a panacea. They are just a good commercial ewe which fits for my system and that I have success with, they pay my bills. And that includes 20k a year on my house and bills, before we get onto anything else. They also pay all of the costs of the business, plus pay me a monthly wage and allow me to invest in my buisness.

There are plenty of breeds which can do this. I just happen to use exlana.

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

You asked me what I sold and scan % did you not ? So I’ve given you my scanning figures as a break down across the groups ...... obviously I can’t tell you what I will sell from that yet as I haven’t lambed the sheep (start next week).

I can tell you that the 5 year average losses (other than the one year of the enzo storm) sit at around 15%

I aim to sell 150% lambs to ewes put to the ram. I beat that most years, sitting around the 165%

Out of curiosity why do you have a problem with the breed ? I’ve never claimed them to be a panacea. They are just a good commercial ewe which fits for my system and that I have success with, they pay my bills. And that includes 20k a year on my house and bills, before we get onto anything else. They also pay all of the costs of the business, plus pay me a monthly wage and allow me to invest in my buisness.

There are plenty of breeds which can do this. I just happen to use exlana.

To be honest no problems with the breed, other than I don't like the look of them, and places looking untidy with wool rubbed everywhere, your attitude on the other hand I thought unnecessary, but then apparently your neilo's best mate so it's all ok, to be honest it doesn't read well though, and if there's one thing puts my back up it's a smart ars.e, going back to the breed/type you hear so many claims on the lack of shepherding, but a lot of its just neglect,so many stories. I struggle myself to believe that neilo's sheep are that bad, it did cross my mind if he'd an ulterior motive, these tup breeders there a canny bunch,is my best way to describe them. You never mentioned the 1800 and their figures, and did Shropshire come off ?

 

[CopperBeech]

To be honest no problems with the breed, other than I don't like the look of them, and places looking untidy with wool rubbed everywhere, your attitude on the other hand I thought unnecessary, but then apparently your neilo's best mate so it's all ok, to be honest it doesn't read well though, and if there's one thing puts my back up it's a smart ars.e, going back to the breed/type you hear so many claims on the lack of shepherding, but a lot of its just neglect,so many stories. I struggle myself to believe that neilo's sheep are that bad, it did cross my mind if he'd an ulterior motive, these tup breeders there a canny bunch,is my best way to describe them. You never mentioned the 1800 and their figures, and did Shropshire come off ?

Let’s be honest about my attitude for a second shall we ? I started a genuine thread asking some questions about terminal use over wool shedding sheep. And then got the standard neilo input of how sh*t and how lacking in maternal ability exlana ewes are as a breed and how awful it would be having those genetics in your flock because they literally will not rear a lamb. And then Aspiring peasant and you jumped in to try and stick the boot in to which is interesting as neither of you have ever kept shedding sheep or exlana so I’m not sure quite what your input on the thread is ? Seeing as the thread wasn’t about their maternal ability or whether they are better or worse than other breeds ...... I can only assume the input from all three parties was just to run the breed down for some reason ? Not really sure. Aye my tone can be a bit off but to be fair I hate the school yard style stuff where someone gives you some sh*t and then their wee hand maidens pop up out the wood work to jump into the slagging match. This was a genuine thread about terminal sire use in the name of market research and you cannot mention wool shedders on here without hearing the same sound bite on every thread

Yes me and neilo know each other and have met several times, I’ve bought his Charolais rams and we usually have a natter in Welshpool each year at the sales. I like neilo and I don’t really ever want to get into a ‘nasty’ argument about it all..... but it does perplex me a bit as I’ve seen several thousand exlana ewes over the last few years and there are probably 10-20 folk on here farming them, who are all pretty honest sorts. I just find it a bit unusual that neilo is having such a uniquely bad experience with them on the maternal front. When no one else appears to have had the same experiance ?

And neilo shouldn’t have to go to see some decent exlana in action ....... he can just look over the hedge and the 500 next door of which the owner is chuffed to bits with on the maternal front

With regard to the 1800, I wouldn’t presume to put other people information up and speak for them. If they wish to comment they will I’m sure.

And yes after lambing a core group of my ewes will be heading to Shropshire. We are also keeping all wintering ground down here and a house here.

 

[CopperBeech]

 

[CopperBeech]

With regard to wool all over fences, this is the sort of coat I’d like them to all have year round ...... so not much wool to leave on a fence. They are meant to be a hair sheep, not a Wooly sheep that loses its wool each year.

 

[Ryan774-80]

Marketing, in my case.
Sending mine anywhere other than Salisbury would have been a strange option since I was 5 miles from the place and could get transport in as a second load for incredibly little. My market was live buyers and they do seem to buy on things like appearance etc. View attachment 1029382
Exlana with Char twins at foot.

View attachment 1029383
Exlana x SufTex (mostly - might be a couple of char x in there too)

What age are the would the ones at foot be in that?

 

[Woolless]

With regard to wool all over fences, this is the sort of coat I’d like them to all have year round ...... so not much wool to leave on a fence. They are meant to be a hair sheep, not a Wooly sheep that loses its wool each year.

That's a good point. Yes they lose their wool/coat but there's less to lose anyway. It doesn't seem to hang about here long. It's always seemed a bit OCD going on about the 'mess'. It is a farm, after all!

 

[Bury the Trash]

With regard to wool all over fences, this is the sort of coat I’d like them to all have year round ...... so not much wool to leave on a fence. They are meant to be a hair sheep, not a Wooly sheep that loses its wool each year.

we don't get wool from shedders on fences, only the wool from woolled sheep does that here.
shedders 'wool'. such as it is falls on the ground and disappears , good organic feed for the soil and bits for the birds to line their nests with.

 

[Bury the Trash]

That's a good point. Yes they lose their wool/coat but there's less to lose anyway. It doesn't seem to hang about here long. It's always seemed a bit OCD going on about the 'mess'. It is a farm, after all!

There is no mess from shedders here and even if there were to be its organic and to be honest, i've got a lot more of less petty things to think about rather than that random possibilty .

some people need to get their priorities straight.