Terminals for shedders

[BELOWAVERAGE]

Let’s be very honest though. You have a habit of doing it. You jump on any thread at all to slag off wool shedders, based upon your small (and obviously terrible sample). It’s just quite odd that you bought 100 odd and they have all been so so lacking in maternal ability ...... and yet the many many thousands owned by other folk on this site ....... don’t display the same traits ?

This is not a personal, despite your numerous attacks on shedders. But if they are so poor, how do I manage to lamb 1200 of them, with next to no mothering issues ? And a friend lamb 1800 with one man, and again next to no mothering issues. I’ve recently lambed a batch of ewe Hoggs early, they were themselves born early on cover crops last year and this year lambed down outside in Feb. Out of the whole batch (admittedly only about 100) I had to catch and lamb I think 5, didn’t have one reject a lamb, including multiple twins, and off the top of my head think I lost one out of a pair to lambing issues (two coming at once) and one out of a pair killed by a badger ........ they are home bred though. So maybe it’s just that I’m a hell of a breeder. Either that, or you’ve managed to hunt down every w*maker in the breed and buy it

You say no mothering issues, what would be the lambs sold per hundred ewes against scanning percentage and anyway just to compare to other breeds.

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

That's percentage in your 1200 and your colleagues 1800.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Like I said, I don’t think it’s your poor shepherding ..... as I know you’ve managed to farm other sheep well enough. So I can only assume its either your poor selection, or someone conned you good and proper. But I suppose at least you always popping up to have a dig at them, provides a bit of balance. It would look a bit odd if it was 100% positive feed back, 99% is more believable isn’t it

We’ve heard enough about neilos 20 shitty sheep..... let’s get back to the original question. If you want to latch onto those 20 ewes to run down a whole type of sheep ...... you’re obviously desperate.

You couldn't be more condescending if you tried. Oh, maybe you are

 

[CopperBeech]

You say no mothering issues, what would be the lambs sold per hundred ewes against scanning percentage and anyway just to compare to other breeds.

Ok here goes - I’ll try to give you an honest breakdown based on this years scanning.

First 200 ish ewes through the crate were my brokers. 43 singles, 103 twins, 42 triplets, 1 quad, and 3 empty.

The flock aged ewes gave a 74.7% multiple rate ie not a single or empty.

I would expect to lose about 10-15% in an average year. That’s with one person doing checks on 1200 ewes which are spread out lambing over a fairly wide area. Also pet lambs aren’t counted as lambs reared.

All lambs finished on grass / forage and sold dead weight at a 20kg average carcass weight apart from the ones to the butcher which average 25kg. My best sold lamb this year was I think £177.10

 

[CopperBeech]

You couldn't be more condescending if you tried. Oh, maybe you are

Hve you actually read the sh!t Neil and I write to each other about these shedders ? I do notice your quick to jump in you’d love them to be total shite I also do realise I have a very unfortunate tone ! I’m no where near this much of a c*nt in real life as neilo and several others can testify to ..... at least I hope so!

 

[Gulli]

I run a Charollais over mine as they are all for slaughter
Get me one of them that I don't have to scrap with every year to get the wool off and I'd be happy

 

[Woolless]

I think that as time goes on, there won’t be much issue selling clean skin sheep in live markets. A man I know sells 1000s of shedding lambs through live marts and does fine. Once the buyers know, they know. Also if you are in possession of a large chunk of the market they have to take note.

Yes but we're not there yet.

 

[CopperBeech]

Yes but we're not there yet.

“Be the change you want to see in the world”

Ok that’s a bit optimistic.

But I do think in some areas, it’s becoming more acceptable.

Obviously the higher demand for lambs and culls in the last year has helped a lot!

 

[gwi1890]

These are easycare x texel ewes bought in from the original flock on Anglesey, given that Im tagging for recording and castrating most male lambs , I find it a much easier top with these ewes they hang about and follow, I wouldn’t say they are better or worse than the easycare ewes here but there will certainly be better cull value.

 

[M-J-G]

I’m sure they’ll sort themselves out given time, as they’re struggling to rear enough lambs to even replace themselves.
I even have a pair of them in the singles paddock, sharing parenting duties of a tiny lamb.

Why are so many of the breeds you try such a disaster?
Don't you do any homework?

 

[HarryB97]

Currently only put a shedding tup over my best ewes which is about 20% of my flock. The main reason being I am then not tempted to keep other ewe lambs from poorer ewes for breeding etc, also means I can not get my tups mixed up. Going forward I would like to go all shedding to basically eliminate maggots and associated hassle.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Hve you actually read the sh!t Neil and I write to each other about these shedders ? I do notice your quick to jump in you’d love them to be total shite I also do realise I have a very unfortunate tone ! I’m no where near this much of a c*nt in real life as neilo and several others can testify to ..... at least I hope so!

Apologies

 

[CopperBeech]

Apologies

Don’t, you’re probably right !

 

[jack6480]

I run a Charollais over mine as they are all for slaughter
Get me one of them that I don't have to scrap with every year to get the wool off and I'd be happy

Any pictures of them?

 

[yellowbelly]

Sort of been done to death this but here goes ......

If you keep wool shedders of whatever type .....

Do you use a terminal over some / all or breed pure ?

If you use a terminal, what breed and why?

Would you consider using a shedding terminal?

If yes, what traits would be important / key to you?

Cheers!

Back to the OP to try and answer the questions

We don't have many shedders (on a whim I bought 3 pens of drafts in a market one day to see how they fared).

Always used a terminal on them (not enough to warrant buying a tup).
This year they've gone to a Texel - all lambed on their own OK and doing well (no pics - I should maybe get some ).

In the past we've used a Charolais........

.......good lambs, grow quick and finish well off grass.

...........oh, and just to prove @neilo is not a totally sh!t shepherd, the tup came from him

It's too late in my shepherding career to change direction and go all shedders now, but if I was going to, I rather like the look of some of @Woolless 's tups that I've seen on here.

Traits that would be important, if I was going all shedding, would be good carcase and growth rates without sacrificing easy lambing and good mothering abilities.

 

[Bones]

Back to the OP to try and answer the questions

We don't have many shedders (on a whim I bought 3 pens of drafts in a market one day to see how they fared).

Always used a terminal on them (not enough to warrant buying a tup).
This year they've gone to a Texel - all lambed on their own OK and doing well (no pics - I should maybe get some ).

In the past we've used a Charolais........
View attachment 1028155
View attachment 1028157
.......good lambs, grow quick and finish well off grass.

...........oh, and just to prove @neilo is not a totally sh!t shepherd, the tup came from him

It's too late in my shepherding career to change direction and go all shedders now, but if I was going to, I rather like the look of some of @Woolless 's tups that I've seen on here.

Traits that would be important, if I was going all shedding, would be good carcase and growth rates without sacrificing easy lambing and good mothering abilities.

It's never to late

 

[Bones]

I'm using a beltex x texel on half of them this year, lambing easily so far touch wood, other half goes pure, all lamb out side and in some shi**y weather, no shelter 900ft , can't get over there will to live,

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

My best sold lamb this year was I think £177.10

Genuine question, if you can sell lambs for that much off maternal lines why bother with terminal sires?

 

[Al R]

Genuine question, if you can sell lambs for that much off maternal lines why bother with terminal sires?

To sell shedding rams I’m guessing - I assume @CopperBeech is looking to sell terminal shedding rams

The Dorper I think has some lines within the breed which have double muscling on the legs like found in Belgian Blues.

 

[neilo]

To sell shedding rams I’m guessing - I assume @CopperBeech is looking to sell terminal shedding rams

The Dorper I think has some lines within the breed which have double muscling on the legs like found in Belgian Blues.

I’m guessing it wouldn’t take long to breed Charollais, Texel, or a cross thereof to shed. You’d likely need a big flock of them to start with though, so that you could select from within those shedding lines as new genetics would take a generation or two to shed?
How long would it take to breed out the compromises that would have to be made on terminal traits, that introducing currently available shedding genetics would entail?
Would it be worth the time & expense for what is always likely to be a very ‘niche’ market, and where the rate of genetic progress on terminal traits will always trail that made by more mainstream (woolly) breeders?