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Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
Just watching the live stream from Carlisle. A few thoughts.

Fattest sheep competition, as ever.

Young judges judge just like old judges.

Not sure limiting the performance recorded classes to the top 10% on index is the best idea ever.
 

cowboysupper

Member
Mixed Farmer
Just watching the live stream from Carlisle. A few thoughts.

Fattest sheep competition, as ever.

Young judges judge just like old judges.

Not sure limiting the performance recorded classes to the top 10% on index is the best idea ever.

How did the sale go?
 

gatepost

Member
Location
Cotswolds
Ever thus, when I first started judging, an old well known judges advice, if in doubt put the biggest fattest one at the top, you'll get less complaints. I have just chickened out of my entry for the national, why bother, our sheep always look small, and I am unwilling to feed an animal to destruction, I thought the ram lamb looked fair, but until folk are willing to look in all pens rather than the golden few, as breeders we sign our own death warrant. But fair play to those boys who put the effort and money in.
 

Sheepfog

Member
Location
Southern England
What traits are used to make the top 10%?
Unless it is on weight gain, weaning weight and eye muscle size and meat yield then having the top 10% may be irrelevant!

Yes. And you want a balance of those traits, rather than an animal that is average in most but exceptional in one boosting its overall index. They also need to know what grass is!
 

Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
Yes. And you want a balance of those traits, rather than an animal that is average in most but exceptional in one boosting its overall index. They also need to know what grass is!

yes. The same flocks have lambs in the open and performance class. When they didn’t limit entries it was a strong class. Once they said top 10% it slashed numbers and quality.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
yes. The same flocks have lambs in the open and performance class. When they didn’t limit entries it was a strong class. Once they said top 10% it slashed numbers and quality.

Top 10% is perhaps setting the bar too high, IF it’s based on the overall index. However, just having a Signet class for anything above average is too far the other way imo. It doesn’t mean there’s a class for genetically superior animals, just another outlet for the pot hunters to take a wobbler out in front of the same judge.
Personally speaking, if you’re really wanting to have a fashion parade, then just get on with it. For those that are actually interested in genetic merit, let them make their own mind up, rather than having a judge point at one they like most, which is all to often one of their mates’.
 

Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
Top 10% is perhaps setting the bar too high, IF it’s based on the overall index. However, just having a Signet class for anything above average is too far the other way imo. It doesn’t mean there’s a class for genetically superior animals, just another outlet for the pot hunters to take a wobbler out in front of the same judge.
Personally speaking, if you’re really wanting to have a fashion parade, then just get on with it. For those that are actually interested in genetic merit, let them make their own mind up, rather than having a judge point at one they like most, which is all to often one of their mates’.

the generic merit argument is being lost in front of the very eyes of the people they need to convince this way.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Yes, just don’t look at his muscle depth or fat depth figures…

I did see, and would walk away just on those.;) There are plenty in our breed doing the same too. Several at our premier sale that had negative eye muscle ebvs, meaning they had poorer muscle depth than the average recorded sheep in 2010! :banghead:

If you decide on show class eligibility based just on final index, those are some of the ones that can enter though.

Personally I’d make it top 25%, or scrap the class and let them compete in the open classes if they should wish to.
 

Bracklandbarn

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Suffolk
the generic merit argument is being lost in front of the very eyes of the people they need to convince this way.
Exactly this... or from what I’ve experienced making the distance between the two camps even greater. At one society sale there was a Signet class, the recorded tups were bought out and there was a very different style to the recorded sheep being presented. Not pushed, not fed ruinous amounts of concentrates and not coiffured to within an inch of their lives. However being in a show ring surrounded my staunch showmen, they felt these sheep were an embarrassment and only reinforced their view against recorded sheep, only now they they were in a public place and proceeded to tell every prospective buyer present. IMO getting recorded sheep to compete in a beauty contest is a bit of an oxymoron surely?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Exactly this... or from what I’ve experienced making the distance between the two camps even greater. At one society sale there was a Signet class, the recorded tups were bought out and there was a very different style to the recorded sheep being presented. Not pushed, not fed ruinous amounts of concentrates and not coiffured to within an inch of their lives. However being in a show ring surrounded my staunch showmen, they felt these sheep were an embarrassment and only reinforced their view against recorded sheep, only now they they were in a public place and proceeded to tell every prospective buyer present. IMO getting recorded sheep to compete in a beauty contest is a bit of an oxymoron surely?

Recording doesn’t mean sheep aren’t pushed, anymore than non-recorded sheep are all stuffed. Most sheep presented in recorded show classes come out of the same pens as lambs that go in the open classes, and have been managed in the same way.
All performance recording means is that the performance of those sheep is measured and compared to other recorded sheep. They aren’t necessarily any better just for being recorded, you just get to make a better estimate of their genetic ability.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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