TFF Group buys ?

[ollie989898]

Agchem boys must have aircraft hangers full of the stuff thats not been applied this autumn then. how are they standing that i wonder?
one of them told me there in for a lean 2years coz of all this rain across the UK just since harvest 19

Much of it will be on consignment I suspect- the manufacturer will do some kind of deal or take it back if necessary, but probably not. Stuff can still be collected, repackaged or even sold in other countries. It's not automatically an in the incinerator job. Might even be over-yeared until next autumn.

 

[Clive]

Clive I will never understand your fascination with ag-chem. I really can't. The reason the bulk of it is is distributor led is because they are the ones that pre-order the material months before it is even manufactured and because they are prepared to sell, store and then collect the monies for it- none of which can be done for nothing.

If you want to have that kind of grasp of the marketplace then you will have to similarly commit to forecasting and ordering X thousand cans of something near 12 months ahead of schedule possibly and then getting it moved and collect the money for it.

If you ask me it would be far far simpler to collect up a few hundred farmers and gather together a few thousand tonnes/loads of fertiliser which of course is what the manufacturers of the stuff already do.

My fascination is I know just how much too much we are all paying - there are potentially huge savings to be made if somehow farmers can compete with those big 5 "well organized" distributers

I'm not saying this just could just be ag chem though - we could do anything really where a seller places a value on a large single order being handed to them

 

[Clive]

Agchem boys must have aircraft hangers full of the stuff thats not been applied this autumn then. how are they standing that i wonder?
one of them told me there in for a lean 2years coz of all this rain across the UK just since harvest 19

don't go feeling too sorry for them!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204022916284895233

However, in a year like this maybe this could help them? let say they want to move a volume of product they have too much to off but only on basis of a big order then we can get that together for them as a group buy

 

[richard hammond]

don't go feeling too sorry for them!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204022916284895233

However, in a year like this maybe this could help them? let say they want to move a volume of product they have too much to off but only on basis of a big order then we can get that together for them as a group buy

I have been talking to a distributor today and they inform me that they are having to rent storage to accommodate the returned product that went out on farm earlier in the autumn, Avadex being the main culprit being returned.

 

[Clive]

I have been talking to a distributor today and they inform me that they are having to rent storage to accommodate the returned product that went out on farm earlier in the autumn, Avadex being the main culprit being returned.

exactly so imagine what that's costing them ? instead, TFF could offer to take say 500 pallets if we got the commitment from enough members at a heavily discounted price that benefits everyone

 

[Farma Parma]

don't go feeling too sorry for them!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204022916284895233

However, in a year like this maybe this could help them? let say they want to move a volume of product they have too much to off but only on basis of a big order then we can get that together for them as a group buy

Its gonna have to be cheap to outlay the coin to then have no direct return on poss some of this for 2years.... there inlays the major flaw CASHFLOW

 

[ollie989898]

My fascination is I know just how much too much we are all paying - there are potentially huge savings to be made if somehow farmers can compete with those big 5 "well organized" distributers

I'm not saying this just could just be ag chem though - we could do anything really where a seller places a value on a large single order being handed to them

If you want a chunk of that margin your secret contact has convinced you they have then you better go about finding a way to secure it. If you want it then you have to shoulder the risk or carry out the work, often both because few things in this life are free as I am sure you are aware.

 

[Clive]

If you want a chunk of that margin your secret contact has convinced you they have then you better go about finding a way to secure it. If you want it then you have to shoulder the risk or carry out the work, often both because few things in this life are free as I am sure you are aware.

you miss the point completely - if you have committed orders then there is no risk just a big order and cash to pay for it - a bit of admin yes which can be minimised by employing technology more than covered by the savings moving up the supply chain brings

I am trying to find a way that all farners can benefit from that - hence this thread, all that’s required is aggregation of our huge buying power that none of us have as individuals but jointly we certainly do have

nothing new really - buying groups have done this for years, I just think it can be done even bigger and cheaper online bringing further savings maybe even reaching a point that even buying groups dream of which is ability to buy enough to get direct supply from manufacturers in some cases

not sure why I bother really though ! Maybe just carry on making everyone other than farmers rich - that’s how agriculture works right ! ??

 

[David.]

I must admit I double checked the date at the top of OP, because it sounded exactly like the discussion before the setting up of what has evolved into Marketplace.
I'm slightly confused as to what you are proposing now that is different, or is this an evolution of Marketplace?
Please do not take this as a negative comment, it is not meant so.

 

[ollie989898]

you miss the point completely - if you have committed orders then there is no risk just a big order and cash to pay for it - a bit of admin yes which can be minimised by employing technology more than covered by the savings moving up the supply chain brings

I am trying to find a way that all farners can benefit from that - hence this thread, all that’s required is aggregation of our huge buying power that none of us have as individuals but jointly we certainly do have

nothing new really - buying groups have done this for years, I just think it can be done even bigger and cheaper online bringing further savings maybe even reaching a point that even buying groups dream of which is ability to buy enough to get direct supply from manufacturers in some cases

not sure why I bother really though ! Maybe just carry on making everyone other than farmers rich - that’s how agriculture works right ! ??

A big order with cash- not that simple I'm afraid for reasons I have already described. If you don't forecast for the stuff it just won't be manufactured which brings us to the situation we have at present.

As for your last line welcome to commodity production where it is all a numbers game based on margin per unit. It is the same across dozens of sectors and industries I'm afraid. If you want extra margin you have to add value somehow.

 

[Farma Parma]

A big order with cash- not that simple I'm afraid for reasons I have already described. If you don't forecast for the stuff it just won't be manufactured which brings us to the situation we have at present.

As for your last line welcome to commodity production where it is all a numbers game based on margin per unit. It is the same across dozens of sectors and industries I'm afraid. If you want extra margin you have to add value somehow.

So annoying for us Growers or Animal Rearing folks we all cant really add much on unless you open a shop & take out all of the middle men that make all the money in the first
place with the least amount of risk.
Commodity Traders really are just another bloody lot of sharks killing us folks.
soz just my thoughts on the subjects here

 

[ollie989898]

So annoying for us Growers or Animal Rearing folks we all cant really add much on unless you open a shop & take out all of the middle men that make all the money in the first
place with the least amount of risk.
Commodity Traders really are just another bloody lot of sharks killing us folks.
soz just my thoughts on the subjects here

I agree, it is a pants situation for all concerned but it is the way of the world.

Yes commodity traders and speculators are making money from both ends but they provide necessary movement within the marketplace.

 

[Steevo]

Do the distributors or buying group really commit to buying the levels they forecast?
Car dealers often only pay for cars once sold to an end customer. Maybe agchem is similar.

I’m pretty sure my buying group estimate levels needed by are never held to those figures. They may get rebate or bonus or perks depending on sales levels though. The trade need buying groups more than they let on.

 

[Chae1]

I must admit I double checked the date at the top of OP, because it sounded exactly like the discussion before the setting up of what has evolved into Marketplace.
I'm slightly confused as to what you are proposing now that is different, or is this an evolution of Marketplace?
Please do not take this as a negative comment, it is not meant so.

I seem to remember farm marketplace was going to revolutionise how farmers buy things. The platform isn't very good and not very user friendly in my opinion.

Good for Clive and co for having a go. But doesn't work for me.

 

[An Gof]

Delivery would not be a problem

It would be hard to offer everything for the start though so maybe would begin with specific deals on specific products and bud from there

it’s a problem to some areas with chemical on the current farm marketplace.

 

[David.]

I find Marketplace almost impossible to view from this Android tablet.
But I wasnt for having a pop at that, just curious what Clive has in mind that is different, after all you can get competitive prices for chemicals relevant to the current timing on Marketplace.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I think @David and @Chae1 have hit the nail square on.

Who’s going to make the money on these huge deals, because one thing is a certain fact, somebody will, otherwise why would they bother?

I’ve an idea who will.....

Farm Marketplace hasn’t really taken off or done anywhere near the level of business that was forecast I’d be willing to bet.

I for one am very glad that supplying farmers is still a personal, friendly and face to face business. There’s bugger all money in being a middle man, despite what some may think. You’ve got to be shifting big volumes to turn a good profit.

I could go to any quarry in the area and tell them I need half a million tonnes of lime, all delivered in two months and I want it for feck all. Then it rains........for two months. Next time they laugh the proposal off.

I think you should just accept Clive that everyone has to make a margin. If you don’t like suppliers making money from you then don’t farm, or indeed be in any business. That, and the fact that if supply companies have invested huge sums of money then they’re going to want big returns.

I’m sure that on the odd occasion the wheat price has touched £200/tonne you didn’t call your customers and tell them they could clear every grain out of your shed for £170/tonne.

Being a farmer seems unfair. Ever was it so. But you’re not alone.

 

[Netherfield]

So @Clive, you go buy 100 pallets of silage wrap, get paid and deliver the product, the wrap turns out to be a load of rubbish, who's going to refund all the farmers, when it turns out the supplier has gone tits up as well.

 

[Clive]

I must admit I double checked the date at the top of OP, because it sounded exactly like the discussion before the setting up of what has evolved into Marketplace.
I'm slightly confused as to what you are proposing now that is different, or is this an evolution of Marketplace?
Please do not take this as a negative comment, it is not meant so.

Farm Marketplace is like an Amazone for farming - individuals buy individual products from various vendors on there - it doesn’t leverage the power of group buying

this idea is much more similar to a traditional buying group - ie find a group of farmers prepared to commit to a truck load of chemical or boat load of fert etc and then pass on the saving that the bulk buying creates

 

[Clive]

So @Clive, you go buy 100 pallets of silage wrap, get paid and deliver the product, the wrap turns out to be a load of rubbish, who's going to refund all the farmers, when it turns out the supplier has gone tits up as well.

what would happen if that occurred in a buying group ? This would be no different in that respect