TFF Group buys ?

[Farma Parma]

And he still reckons he only breaks even & that’s with 4 million pounds in subsidies........still breaking even is better than a loss I suppose?

Is that right, no one forced him to buy up all them 10's thousands of acres did they?

 

[Brisel]

Anglia farmers agflation index says ago Chems are at 122 against 2006 index of 100. Far lower than any other farm input.

I would agree with that. The reason my agchem costs creep up year on year is due to the loss of older cheaper off patent chemistry and increasing resistance to the remaining actives meaning ever higher doses.

 

[Brisel]

And he still reckons he only breaks even & that’s with 4 million pounds in subsidies........still breaking even is better than a loss I suppose?

If you look at what he is investing in on his land, break even or loss making farming doesn’t involve paying much tax whilst installing new land drainage, property refurbishments, hedge planting etc that will pay back in future. He’s not so stupid.

 

[Farma Parma]

I would agree with that. The reason my agchem costs creep up year on year is due to the loss of older cheaper off patent chemistry and increasing resistance to the remaining actives meaning ever higher doses.

Yeah thats poss more the reason, were loosing stuff at a heck of a rate & all the good stuff at that

 

[Farma Parma]

If you look at what he is investing in on his land, break even or loss making farming doesn’t involve paying much tax whilst installing new land drainage, property refurbishments, hedge planting etc that will pay back in future. He’s not so stupid.

We know he isnt, am no knocking the man he did make quite a canny hoover !!

 

[richard hammond]

If you look at what he is investing in on his land, break even or loss making farming doesn’t involve paying much tax whilst installing new land drainage, property refurbishments, hedge planting etc that will pay back in future. He’s not so stupid.

I don't think Dyson and stupid belong in the same sentence!

 

[ajd132]

I find it hard to believe distributors get 30% gross margins on ag chems. I've no idea who the "big 5" are (enlighten me) but a quick browse through companies house reveals:

Hutchinsons 12% gross margins, 4% operating margins
Frontier 6% GMs, 2% op margins
Fram Farmers 2% gross surplus, <1% op margin.

Are these companies really that inefficient or is it just a competitive business? I haven't a clue but it doesn't look like anyone is getting very rich at farmers expenses...

How many people have jobs at those companies that can now be done with technology. They are not needed and are taking money out of the system. It’s simple.

 

[Brisel]

How many people have jobs at those companies that can now be done with technology. They are not needed and are taking money out of the system. It’s simple.

If they weren’t needed they wouldn’t exist. Someone has to act as a middleman and courier.

 

[ajd132]

If they weren’t needed they wouldn’t exist. Someone has to act as a middleman and courier.

One of the buying groups I’m a member off has huge amounts of staff and I don’t know what they do. The other (main one) is a couple of people and gets better prices.
my point is and has been for ages is that there’s Chem companies and all their people, distributors and all their people, buying groups and all their people. There is so many people and not all of them offer enough.

 

[Brisel]

Diseconomies of scale?

 

[ajd132]

Diseconomies of scale?

Yeh and a lot of repitition through the supply chain I thinj

 

[teslacoils]

If they weren’t needed they wouldn’t exist. Someone has to act as a middleman and courier.

I don't think this is the case in at chem. Just a lot of highly paid, entrenched individuals. Let's call a spade a spade - five big firms with near identical prices. They add no value to us at all.

 

[Brisel]

I’m still happy for there to be 5 big firms as well as regional ones. There’s still competition out there. We are the subjects of plenty enough implicit collusion at the farm gate through oligopolistic market power. Not many major manufacturers of tractors, R&D chemicals, seed breeders, millers, processors, retailers etc

 

[teslacoils]

I’m still happy for there to be 5 big firms as well as regional ones. There’s still competition out there. We are the subjects of plenty enough implicit collusion at the farm gate through oligopolistic market power. Not many major manufacturers of tractors, R&D chemicals, seed breeders, millers, processors, retailers etc

I'm ecstatic about five firms. But not if they are making more margin than me. My position is, at face value, less precarious than theirs. I produce a product. The chem companies do the same. Those in the middle need to justify their share of the pie, or go down in flames.