TFF's ELMS Questions time ? Number 2

devonbeef

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon UK
How linked is red tractors new proposals to elms.? If proper farming is made harder by more rules, forcing us to sign up to the goverments prefered direction of travel.
 

Farma Parma

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Northumberlandia
1)No mention of food in elms. So my question
With the uptake of elms this will reduce agricultural production from a country that isn’t self sufficient. This will lead to increased imports from countries with a higher carbon footprint in food production and lower welfare standards. How will you that’s in charge of ELSM explain this to the public?
2) you couldbe known for doing to agriculture what Mr Beeching did to the railways. Are you happy with this comparison?
your not far wrong, its a poor state were in when no matter what GOV is in charge no political loyally here, that none of them are really that bothered about our own countries well being
in some of the best food production standards across the world thats goverened very highly at great hidden costs to us all.
You should always put your own country first regardless if something is cheaper from elsewhere shouldnt you?
That has so many meanings that affects us all.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
A lot of money gets spent on administration and bureaucracy will you guarantee a percentage of the budget goes to the farmer rather than spent on administration like it does now with countryside stewardship compared to the BPS?
Agreed.

Also, there is a strong trend for supply trades to raise their prices and "profit take" when agricultural subsidy schemes are involved. Many of the items available under the latest round of the Countryside Productivity Small grant scheme cannot be bought for the sums stated in the scheme when complying with the specifications the scheme requires. Either the price research the scheme was based on was flawed or suppliers have raised their prices in response to the scheme.

I am very concerned that DEFRA regularly refer to the need for "trusted advisers" to facilitate farmers delivery under ELM. Do DEFRA recognise the risk that those advisers will, similarly, raise their rates to take advantage of the scheme and, if so, how do they intend to avoid such advisers swallowing up an unacceptable proportion of the funding intended to support farmers?
 

delilah

Member
1)No mention of food in elms. So my question
With the uptake of elms this will reduce agricultural production from a country that isn’t self sufficient. This will lead to increased imports from countries with a higher carbon footprint in food production and lower welfare standards. How will you that’s in charge of ELSM explain this to the public?
2) you couldbe known for doing to agriculture what Mr Beeching did to the railways. Are you happy with this comparison?
3) as found out with the free school meals fiasco a lot of money get spent on administration and bureaucracy will you guarantee a percentage of the budget goes to the farmer rather than spent on administration like it does now with countryside stewardship compared to the BPS?

All 3 of your points illustrate perfectly why it should all go to PP.
 

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Tubbylew

Member
Location
Herefordshire
One of the key failures of farm policy of the last 30 years has been training and "knowledge exchange". The old Agricultural Training Board used to facilitate free or subsidised training courses throughout agriculture benefiting productivity, profitability and farm safety. I had free training from the ATB in 1st Aid, Tyre repair, Chainsaw safety and maintenance, Tree felling, Calving cows, Hedge laying and Crop sprayer operation amongst other things.

Will subsidised training feature in either ELM or the SFI?
This^^, something i'm accutely aware of being on the wesh border, is just how much funding is or was available through farming connect, it wasn't long ago you could get 80% funded hgv licences iirc.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
How will ELMS dovetail with the proposals in the Environment Bill?

The new Bill will have a good deal of "stick" regarding ammonia emissions, water quality, air quality, climate change. Will ELMS have some "carrot" to help us adjust?

I haven't worded that very well - it comes across as being needy but if our production systems are about to be restricted, we need help in adapting.
 
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Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
How long will the contracts be? Some options deliver benefits very quickly. Others will take a much longer time e.g. carbon sequestration, forestry, flood water management.

In CS, we had some options that were 10 years whilst most were 5 years
 
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Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
I think it's fair to challenge DEFRA to try and maintain profitability vs our EU neighbours, particularly as though there is still tariff free access for goods. It's quite important!

What would you rather have (per 100 acres).

ELMS payment of say £8k, but option A you've got to put 40 acres into stewardship options at a rate of £200/acre. Or option B, same £8k, but £800/acre on 10 acres of stewardship options. Option B leaving you with another 30 acres of cropping income.

I think the way it is structured can make a big difference to profitability. I think that's a reasonable point to discuss.
Good point, but aren't some of the options going to be compatible with productive farming, but using more environmentally friendly methods?
 

zero

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorkshire coast
Is it possible to tailor elms to regions rather than have a on size fits all scheme. At the moment their are plenty of options for east Anglian arable farmers, but barely any for livestock farmers and mixed farmers in particular?
Any new scheme needs to take into account the value of existing small fields, hedges, permanent pasture, stone walls, trees, ponds and existing habitat rather than just pay out for new things that are created for the scheme. And to be flexible enough to recognise that all areas of England have very different growing conditions.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Compulsory SSSI designations and restrictions have made land less productive, less profitable and caused a reduction in capital value (compared to neighbouring non-SSSI land).

Farmers have never had any compensation for this. Will ELMS redress this issue, and offer higher payment rates for SSSI land.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
How long will the contracts be? Some options deliver benefits very quickly. Others will take a much longer time e.g. carbon sequestration, forestry, flood water management.

In CS, we had some options that were 10 years whilst most were 5 years
Related to this and my earlier question about fairness in the rules: Will the rules still allow DEFRA to end a scheme early without penalty and, if so, will the same apply to applicants? If not why not?
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Compulsory SSSI designations and restrictions have made land less productive, less profitable and caused a reduction in capital value (compared to neighbouring non-SSSI land).

Farmers have never had any compensation for this. Will ELMS redress this issue, and offer higher payment rates for SSSI land.
What guarantee do we have that productive farmland will not be designated SSSI on the strength of perceived environmental improvements brought about by being managed in compliance with an ELM scheme agreement thereby legally locking the landowner in to that management permanently even if the payments cease?
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Maybe training should be offered/given to ELMS participants in the key 6 areas of outcomes intended
Air Quality
Water Quality
Biodiversity
Climate Change
Flood Mitigation
Countryside Amenity Value and Culture

then the outcome is 'guaranteed' therefore payment should be 'guaranteed' - even as @Rob Garrett has alluded, paid as an upfront payment :) win-win!
How about fully-funded certificated training in ecological assessment of farmland to the necessary standard to self-certify scheme outcomes?
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Compulsory SSSI designations and restrictions have made land less productive, less profitable and caused a reduction in capital value (compared to neighbouring non-SSSI land).

Farmers have never had any compensation for this. Will ELMS redress this issue, and offer higher payment rates for SSSI land.

Will there be statutory designations put on improved land? Higher Level Stewardship land has not been allowed to be returned to production in some cases following the completion of the contract.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 78 42.9%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 63 34.6%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.5%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 5 2.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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