That letter from Jean Castex...

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Of course we all know Mr Castex is the French PM, and so is at the top of French, perhaps even European, politics; but what we didn't know is that he wants to give Boris Johnson as much political help as he can.

Mr Castex has, it seems, written to the 'President' of the EC - UvdL - to ensure harsher treatment for the UK and, specifically, to make sure that other EU member states are shown that it is 'more damaging to leave the EU than to stay in it'... In my view that's an interesting turn of phrase if ever there was one, :banghead:, and certainly not what I'd have chosen in his place - but that's just in passing.

What Mr Castex has in fact done is, obviously, make Boris's life a lot easier. Firstly, such things tend to irritate even those who would have preferred the UK to remain in the EU, they certainly can't disagree when Boris says things like 'There should be no punitive treatment'. Secondly, if there is any, any evidence at all that any EU policy or action - or that of any member state effecting the UK / EU deal - has been directed toward making anything 'damaging', 'harsh' or even just 'difficult' for the UK, it will be in material breach of the agreement.

That isn't a matter for argument, their is no 'grey' area in it, no 'range of opinions', it's absolutely clear and legally unquestionable, both parties are bound to act in good faith in performance of the agreement and all of its terms. My bet is that, because of this, there are a fair number of people over in Europe now wishing they'd kept themselves to themselves.

Now, if you will, cast your minds back a bit to when there was UvdL's panic about vaccines and the EC came very, very close to triggering Article 16 in re the UK / ROI border. Fortunately HMG and few of the more sensible in Dublin acted calmly and told* them to wind their necks in, I'm minded that even @Ashtree wrote as much at the time - so it must be true. :woot:

For the EU it set a very awkward precedent regarding Art. 16, something that was never, ever supposed to be used; it also gave Boris and chums a 'get out of jail free card' without an expiry date. Many of us have suspected for some time that the EU was trying to make things unnecessarily difficult for the UK, such seems now to be the proven case, and the EU have given Boris another free card.





*I guess 'told' is probably a very diplomatic term for what actually happened...
 

Mek

Member
I don’t know if I am a little less naive or a bit more cynical but I’ve always thought right from the start of Brexit that the EU would make it as awkward as possible for the UK. Up until now I’ve been surprised at how amiable/ amicable Brexit appears to have been.
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
Castex doesn't need to do anything. On the 1st Jan 2022 the 'rules of origin' regulations come into force for all UK exports to the EU. Which appears to be yet another thing this idiot government hasn't prepared adequately for yet. :banghead:
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
Castex doesn't need to do anything. On the 1st Jan 2022 the 'rules of origin' regulations come into force for all UK exports to the EU. Which appears to be yet another thing this idiot government hasn't prepared adequately for yet. :banghead:
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Castex doesn't need to do anything. On the 1st Jan 2022 the 'rules of origin' regulations come into force for all UK exports to the EU. Which appears to be yet another thing this idiot government hasn't prepared adequately for yet. :banghead:
No that's boll*cks, as proven by @bobk, We've known about them for ages and have had several chats with HMRC about them.

I'm not a great fan of HMRC and I have not found them to be particularly helpful regarding internal UK tax; on a couple of occasions I have complained to them about this and only had admissions of poor service after a fair bit of pushing.

However, with this and another matter where the German authorities were not playing ball, they were helpful and we received as much assistance as was required.
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
No that's boll*cks, as proven by @bobk, We've known about them for ages and have had several chats with HMRC about them.

I'm not a great fan of HMRC and I have not found them to be particularly helpful regarding internal UK tax; on a couple of occasions I have complained to them about this and only had admissions of poor service after a fair bit of pushing.

However, with this and another matter where the German authorities were not playing ball, they were helpful and we received as much assistance as was required.
IMO you are both not understanding the significant consequences of these new regulations. If you had read the site that @bobk posted you will see this is a massive minefield and a quick and easy way for the EU to impose non tariff barriers at the drop of a hat in any dispute. And to add to it there is conformity marking to come along as well.
 

Ashtree

Member
Making it awkward or difficult for Brexit Britain, is simply the application of the rules and regulations, of the single market and customs union, in the same way as such rules are applied to all other third countries.
Put another way, it amounts to the application of the rules and regulations, agreed to in a solemn treaty, agreed to by Boris and Frosty, and passed by the House of Commons.
The outcome of course is the clear manifestation of the fallacy of “having cake and eating it”! To the shock horror of the Brexit establishment, the Europeans have taken back the single market and customs union cake, and are enjoying the very obvious benefits of it. Those third countries who don’t chip in to pay for ingredients, don’t qualify get the crumbs, never mind a proper slice.
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
Making it awkward or difficult for Brexit Britain, is simply the application of the rules and regulations, of the single market and customs union, in the same way as such rules are applied to all other third countries.
Put another way, it amounts to the application of the rules and regulations, agreed to in a solemn treaty, agreed to by Boris and Frosty, and passed by the House of Commons.
The outcome of course is the clear manifestation of the fallacy of “having cake and eating it”! To the shock horror of the Brexit establishment, the Europeans have taken back the single market and customs union cake, and are enjoying the very obvious benefits of it. Those third countries who don’t chip in to pay for ingredients, don’t qualify get the crumbs, never mind a proper slice.
Agreed , but when we were members it was a very expensive piece of cake .
 

Ashtree

Member
Agreed , but when we were members it was a very expensive piece of cake .
Price and value are two sides of the same coin. Price of course is a very obvious and easily understood concept, and unfortunately one which lent itself easily to the jingoism and dog whistling of Farage et al, prior to referendum time.
Value on the other hand, can be much more subjective and difficult to quantify, except to experts and shrewd operators in given fields of business and commerce. However, the value of the single market and customs union, has since the withdrawal agreement become much less abstract and much more concrete. I doubt any country in the EU, no matter how euroskeptic it might be, would now wish to put itself outside of the SM/CU, as Britain has. It’s clearly a very retrograde step. The whole concept of replacing near home markets with “global”, trade deals, is now clearly a mirage.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
IMO you are both not understanding the significant consequences of these new regulations. If you had read the site that @bobk posted you will see this is a massive minefield and a quick and easy way for the EU to impose non tariff barriers at the drop of a hat in any dispute. And to add to it there is conformity marking to come along as well.
Have read the site and the actual 'agreement' and have most certainly understood it. The reg's work both ways, it isn't the EU's one way street; read them again - I'm sure you have already... :unsure: - and you'll note many that work specifically against probable EU interest, and a few that do the same for the UK - presumably both sides deemed the respective parts worth putting up with.

What you don't seem to have grasped is the plain fact that your chum Mr Castex has simply provided the UK with what our American cousins would term and amicus brief.

Of course it needn't be used any time soon, it doesn't have a 'use by' date; and there is no rush because anyone thinking or claiming that trade matters etc. would be settled by now is a bloody fool. It will be some years before things settle and make clear what problems and benefits. But, if and when we do need to use it, it will be there and can't now be withdrawn. (y)


Right, back out to the fun of clearing up, heavy rain and wind, everybody's favourite weather... :arghh:
 

czechmate

Member
Mixed Farmer
Have read the site and the actual 'agreement' and have most certainly understood it. The reg's work both ways, it isn't the EU's one way street; read them again - I'm sure you have already... :unsure: - and you'll note many that work specifically against probable EU interest, and a few that do the same for the UK - presumably both sides deemed the respective parts worth putting up with.

What you don't seem to have grasped is the plain fact that your chum Mr Castex has simply provided the UK with what our American cousins would term and amicus brief.

Of course it needn't be used any time soon, it doesn't have a 'use by' date; and there is no rush because anyone thinking or claiming that trade matters etc. would be settled by now is a bloody fool. It will be some years before things settle and make clear what problems and benefits. But, if and when we do need to use it, it will be there and can't now be withdrawn. (y)


Right, back out to the fun of clearing up, heavy rain and wind, everybody's favourite weather... :arghh:


Did you watch Eurovision?
I thought the message was load and clear... we all hate you😂😂😂😂
 

robs1

Member
Making it awkward or difficult for Brexit Britain, is simply the application of the rules and regulations, of the single market and customs union, in the same way as such rules are applied to all other third countries.
Put another way, it amounts to the application of the rules and regulations, agreed to in a solemn treaty, agreed to by Boris and Frosty, and passed by the House of Commons.
The outcome of course is the clear manifestation of the fallacy of “having cake and eating it”! To the shock horror of the Brexit establishment, the Europeans have taken back the single market and customs union cake, and are enjoying the very obvious benefits of it. Those third countries who don’t chip in to pay for ingredients, don’t qualify get the crumbs, never mind a proper slice.
Would that be like the fishing rules where the french can't prove that some boats were catching fish when they claimed they were despite the legal requirement to keep logs, of course now the french expect us to take their word for it. Rules work for both sides, Macron and castex are making themselves look very foolish
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Would that be like the fishing rules where the french can't prove that some boats were catching fish when they claimed they were despite the legal requirement to keep logs, of course now the french expect us to take their word for it. Rules work for both sides, Macron and castex are making themselves look very foolish
Macron is playing a dangerous game. Very amusing.
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
Price and value are two sides of the same coin. Price of course is a very obvious and easily understood concept, and unfortunately one which lent itself easily to the jingoism and dog whistling of Farage et al, prior to referendum time.
Value on the other hand, can be much more subjective and difficult to quantify, except to experts and shrewd operators in given fields of business and commerce. However, the value of the single market and customs union, has since the withdrawal agreement become much less abstract and much more concrete. I doubt any country in the EU, no matter how euroskeptic it might be, would now wish to put itself outside of the SM/CU, as Britain has. It’s clearly a very retrograde step. The whole concept of replacing near home markets with “global”, trade deals, is now clearly a mirage.
Give the Uk some credit, after all they have a world beating trade deal with the Faroe Islands?
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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