Tonym
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
It was the two wheelmarks that really confused the judge.
That Time of Year Again.....
- Thread starter Howard150
- Start date
It was the two wheelmarks that really confused the judge.
Hellish Tony. Mind well and truly boggled now!
Petetheploughman
Member
- Location
- The West Country
Happy new year!
I forgot to ask this in 2018, was there a Welsh National held? I think it is called the All Wales ploughing match. How do you qualify to plough at the match?
I forgot to ask this in 2018, was there a Welsh National held? I think it is called the All Wales ploughing match. How do you qualify to plough at the match?
There is Pete. Saturday 21st September at Newtown I believe. Just enter. The local society administers it. Will get the contact details for you.
Petetheploughman
Member
- Location
- The West Country
Thank you David. Don't worry about getting the details as I'm not serious about going. I was just asking is there such a thing as the Welsh national or is this the closest match to it?
Certainly is a welsh National, and they send people to the world. This causes "unhappiness" in the SOP national as the welsh and Scots can compete and in doing so, keep English competitors out of the plough of, even though, they cannot represent us. The SOP pat answer is that the national is the British National, so must be open to all British people. In that, I agree, but should the plough offs not have sufficient spaces for there to be a full quota of English, with the Scots and Welsh being additions as required?
Petetheploughman
Member
- Location
- The West Country
Is the All Wales Plough Match the Welsh national?
Mydexta
Member
- Location
- Dundee/angus
Same up here. All classes are open to all nationalities, and in the vintage lift, classic and trailing class then any nationality can go forward to the plough off.
From Memory there were 3/10 Englishmen in the classic
Class plough off
4/10 Englishmen in the vintage lift plough off
5/10 Englishmen and 1/10 Irishmen in the trailing class plough off.
There are arguments for and against the above, some folk think there should be a visitors class etc etc
cropmaster
Member
- Location
- pwllheli
Petetheploughman
Member
- Location
- The West Country
And you don't have to qualify, you can just enter in without being a member of some club or society.
In all classes in England and Wales, Scottish, Welsh and English ploughmen all have exactly the same rights. The Welsh is slightly different as it is only a one day event.
In the English scruffy classes all ploughmen need to qualify, regardless of nationality.
In the English World style classes, English Scottish and Welsh ploughmen have the same right to plough in the plough off. Only English ploughmen have the right to represent England. The same right of representation applies to the scruffy classes.
In the Scottish scruffy classes all ploughmen have similar rights apart from Welsh and English ploughmen are unable to represent Scotland in any international competition. Perhaps somebody on here could qualify whether or not an English or Welsh man could represent Scotland if permanently residing there.
The world style is significantly different. Only Scottish ploughmen are allowed into the plough off on the second day. English and Welsh ploughmen in these classes plough in a visitors class on the second day.
Possibly some sore points here with those over in Ireland.
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Quite correct David as far as it goes, but If the top ten ploughmen in the world style came from outside england, under the present system England would have no qualified rep.
cropmaster
Member
- Location
- pwllheli
That is correct
Lurker
Member
Yes there would it would be whoever was placed highest from the first day, wouldn’t it surely?
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Lurker
Member
Looking at an old rule book “the ploughmen selected to represent Scotland at National and International level must have been born in Scotland or resided in Scotland for minimum of two years and be a current SPC member” it’s a old book but wouldn’t imagine they would have changed it.
Don’t have the SOP book to hand but assume it would be the same for Scots or Welsh at the British, you would think so but probably not the case.
Read my post again Harry. Only an Englishman can represent England Internationally. If it were to pass that 10 ploughmen other than Englishmen were in the plough off, then the highest placed Englishman would represent England.
“In the English World style classes, English Scottish and Welsh ploughmen have the same right to plough in the plough off. Only English ploughmen have the right to represent England. The same right of representation applies to the scruffy classes”
Happened to me at Lichfield when David Hankey beat me into second place on a countback when straightness was introduced by stealth and contrary to the prize schedule we had entered by. I ploughed for England in the European
And where is that written. Its still not good that visitors can keep Englishmen out of the plough off, it should consist of ten Englishmen and as additions any visitors who qualified.
That is what you would expect, but its not in the rules,and if several competitors have tied, even with the countback, where do you go then. We are not talking actualities, but possibilities. Thinking more on this, it could be said that as the man had not made it to the qualifying( plough off) component of the competition, he could not be termed a qualifier, becoming instead a nominee.Would the world organisation accept a nominee?
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Lurker
Member
Regardless of whether they are a qualifier or a nominee as you put it they would still be the highest placed competitor eligible to represent England at the World the same goes for the other placing for the other competitions and other classes.
In regards to the possibilities of no clear winner even after countback there is a standard system in place for such an very unusual occasion, although to me its so infrequent I don't remember how it is worked out and will happen fairly regular to work out the placing exactly if they have to go done the list of winners to find someone prepared to travel at their own expense in the scruffy classes.
In regards to whom is entitled to compete in the plough off well space is limited so only 10 places in each class, so it should be the top ploughers that go through to the plough off regardless of country as the Scots and Welsh would have had to first of all qualify to attend (only in the scruffy classes) and would have travelled just as far and arguably further as far as the Scots go for the right to win the British title in what ever class so are just as entitled as anybody else and more so if they have plougher better than others in the first place. The solution if you want to make it through to the plough off then we just have to plough better or enjoy spectating at the plough off. I would say I think all classes should have to qualify to attend the national that would elevate some of your concerns would it not.
There was a time when the national was a two class match, conventional and reversable, with around 80 or more competitors in the conventional class alone. These being split into four sub classes to keep the judges walking mileage reasonable! Everyone of these competitors had qualified to enter,either by winning their local match or a nomination from an affiliated society . No vintage ,classic etc, though there could have still been a horse class, I cant remember. These days the boot is on the other foot, its all vintage, until that is, you get to the world, or more correctly, the kit used and the work required. The vintage qualifiers are working but not perfectly, falling into the same trap as world style( or Whole furrow, Semmi digger, as it was called in previous incarnations)in that the same men enter many matches and qualify multiple times, this then brings the nomination system to life How ever, enough history.
Let me put this straight, I have no problem with visitorts taking the BRITISH championship.I do disagree with the system whereby, on their way to the Britsh championship, they deprive an Englisman from competing in what is his separate English championship, the plough off. It is the English championship proven by the fact that on attending the World, he is deemed to be the English champion.What would be best would be the visitors home nations seeding their national champions, and perhaps the runners up straight to the British championship finals
Let me put this straight, I have no problem with visitorts taking the BRITISH championship.I do disagree with the system whereby, on their way to the Britsh championship, they deprive an Englisman from competing in what is his separate English championship, the plough off. It is the English championship proven by the fact that on attending the World, he is deemed to be the English champion.What would be best would be the visitors home nations seeding their national champions, and perhaps the runners up straight to the British championship finals