That Time of Year Again.....

[Howard150]

That is what you would expect, but its not in the rules,and if several competitors have tied, even with the countback, where do you go then. We are not talking actualities, but possibilities. Thinking more on this, it could be said that as the man had not made it to the qualifying( plough off) component of the competition, he could not be termed a qualifier, becoming instead a nominee.Would the world organisation accept a nominee?

Drowning In legalese now Aitch. Several competitors are never ever going to tie. Whether or not the man made it to the plough off is academic - remember the qualifying match following foot and mouth? As a world member, There is a certain onus on England to send 2 ploughmen to the world match. It is one of the primary objectives of the SOP - if you remember all the discontent among the scruffy classes who might well just be the main contributors to the coffers for a very poor return up until the last couple of years.

 

[Dealer]

Without the scrap tractor & plough classes

You could hold the national on an allotment

Shropshire now has less than a handfull of world style ploughmen despite having a multi uk champion in the last 10 years or so

I should think that fact that the ploughman from north and West make the class a better quality given that we have failed in the world style classes in the last few matches shows thd current crop need better compertition to drive the standard up.

 

[Ley253]

Drowning In legalese now Aitch. Several competitors are never ever going to tie. Whether or not the man made it to the plough off is academic - remember the qualifying match following foot and mouth? As a world member, There is a certain onus on England to send 2 ploughmen to the world match. It is one of the primary objectives of the SOP - if you remember all the discontent among the scruffy classes who might well just be the main contributors to the coffers for a very poor return up until the last couple of years.

Indeed I remember the special post F&M match, in fact, thats what made me wonder about world accepting a nominee. If they would, why hold the match? Picking for example last years champion would have been correct in some ways,as he had not been dethroned, he was still champion!

 

[Ley253]

Without the scrap tractor & plough classes

You could hold the national on an allotment

Shropshire now has less than a handfull of world style ploughmen dispute having a multi uk champion in the last 10 years or so

I should think that fact that the ploughman from north and West make the class a better quality given that we have failed in the world style classes in the last few matches shows thd current crop need better compertition to drive the standard up.

Indeed, standard does need driving up. But is keeping English competitors out of their national championship final by people who cannot represent us the way to do that?.Indeed, If the afore mentioned seeding system was in use, there would always be ten English competitors learning from the visitors, now, their usually less, as Wales can be relied on to take a couple of places, and when the National goes north, Many Scots will be tempted to enter and some of them could get through, reducing the English element further.
One other thing to bear in mind, there is little learning done at the national time does not allow off plot excursions, also, the upwards force generated by visitors is more evident in normal matches, we see each other often enough and can perch on a suitable shoulder and see what he is doing, time being more "flexible"!
There is some requirement for a carrot, and making the English feel their championship organisers are looking after them, could help, being certain that if you were the eighth best Englishman you would get a place in the final ten, would be an incentive.As things stand, you could be the third best Englishman and still not get there, and whatever its called the Plough Off is the English championship.

 

[Dealer]

Any mechanisms that distort the best winning is not good for anyone

Take qualifying for the classic class for instance if you exclude the best then the class is distorted to a poorer group

As you are only trying to find 1 from each class in the world style then why do you need to fill the plough off with those that will never win the class let alone the world's

The best always rise to the top, the first day you all start as equal and the same chance to make the plough off

The scruffy guys may have already had to beat former or current champions just to get to the national

Lets say I borrowed your kit Harry and had never used it before and came 18th but 8 others where excluded via nationality how does promoting me improve the quality?

All it does is make it easier for the Englishman to be champion on the day.

Don't make him the best in the competition tho does it. If he was 7th on the first day behind 6 of the excluded ploughers

 

[Lurker]

The vintage qualifiers are working but not perfectly, falling into the same trap as world style( or Whole furrow, Semmi digger, as it was called in previous incarnations)in that the same men enter many matches and qualify multiple times, this then brings the nomination system to life How ever, enough history.
Let me put this straight, I have no problem with visitorts taking the BRITISH championship.I do disagree with the system whereby, on their way to the Britsh championship, they deprive an Englisman from competing in what is his separate English championship, the plough off. It is the English championship proven by the fact that on attending the World, he is deemed to be the English champion.What would be best would be the visitors home nations seeding their national champions, and perhaps the runners up straight to the British championship finals

Just a couple of small points, firstly currently under SOP rules the way scruffy classes qualifiers work you cannot qualify more than once. Secondly and I'm not quiet sure you are getting this but there is no such thing as an English Champion or an English Championship, there is a British Champion at the British Championship for competitors from throughout Britain regardless of whether they are English or otherwise, but it is however the highest placed Englishman who is eligible to plough and represent England at the world contest.

Indeed, standard does need driving up. But is keeping English competitors out of their national championship final by people who cannot represent us the way to do that?.Indeed, If the afore mentioned seeding system was in use, there would always be ten English competitors learning from the visitors, now, their usually less, as Wales can be relied on to take a couple of places, and when the National goes north, Many Scots will be tempted to enter and some of them could get through, reducing the English element further.
One other thing to bear in mind, there is little learning done at the national time does not allow off plot excursions, also, the upwards force generated by visitors is more evident in normal matches, we see each other often enough and can perch on a suitable shoulder and see what he is doing, time being more "flexible"!
There is some requirement for a carrot, and making the English feel their championship organisers are looking after them, could help, being certain that if you were the eighth best Englishman you would get a place in the final ten, would be an incentive.As things stand, you could be the third best Englishman and still not get there, and whatever its called the Plough Off is the English championship.

The national championship you refer to is for British competitors and again as I said above there is no such thing as an English Champion or an English Championship, there is a British Champion at the British Championship for competitors from throughout Britain regardless of whether they are English or otherwise, but it is however the highest placed Englishman who is eligible to plough and represent England at the world contest.

 

[cropmaster]

Just a couple of small points, firstly currently under SOP rules the way scruffy classes qualifiers work you cannot qualify more than once. Secondly and I'm not quiet sure you are getting this but there is no such thing as an English Champion or an English Championship, there is a British Champion at the British Championship for competitors from throughout Britain regardless of whether they are English or otherwise, but it is however the highest placed Englishman who is eligible to plough and represent England at the world contest.



The national championship you refer to is for British competitors and again as I said above there is no such thing as an English Champion or an English Championship, there is a British Champion at the British Championship for competitors from throughout Britain regardless of whether they are English or otherwise, but it is however the highest placed Englishman who is eligible to plough and represent England at the world contest.

Exactly

 

[Dealer]

Here mr crop master

Who said you could comment on our English post

Happy New year

 

[cropmaster]

Here mr crop master

Who said you could comment on our English post

Happy New year

I was in the plough offs (they would never allow a welshman or a scotsman to win )

 

[Dealer]

Only missing the Irishman then

It makes a change Harry blaming the foreigners it's usually the biased judges

Lol

 

[Ley253]

Just a couple of small points, firstly currently under SOP rules the way scruffy classes qualifiers work you cannot qualify more than once. Secondly and I'm not quiet sure you are getting this but there is no such thing as an English Champion or an English Championship, there is a British Champion at the British Championship for competitors from throughout Britain regardless of whether they are English or otherwise, but it is however the highest placed Englishman who is eligible to plough and represent England at the world contest.



The national championship you refer to is for British competitors and again as I said above there is no such thing as an English Champion or an English Championship, there is a British Champion at the British Championship for competitors from throughout Britain regardless of whether they are English or otherwise, but it is however the highest placed Englishman who is eligible to plough and represent England at the world contest.

By default, the English world match rep is the English Champion, call him what you will.Or is it your view that his achievement does not warrant such recognition? Would the title also ran, perhaps ride more comfortably?

 

[wuddy]

From my point of view competitors should not be excluded from the plough off due to nationality (I know it’s done in the world style classes at the Scottish)! Chances are if you qualify for an international competition it’s the same guys your going to be up against at least if you have ploughed against them you know how close or far away you are and what parts you need to up your game on to beat them! I was beaten be Richard Ingram at the Scottish but will be representing Scotland at the European next year and have an idea of where I need to improve to have a chance of beating him (putting it into practice is a different story). If he had been removed from the plough off fair enough I would have been Scottish champion but no idea if I was good enough to beat him or not! If you want to be the best you have to plough against the best not have them removed from the class!

 

[Ley253]

Only missing the Irishman then

It makes a change Harry blaming the foreigners it's usually the biased judges

Lol

There are a few, and I have been around long enough to know a few! But to be honest, its much more incompetence now, often the local land owner does not have the tech knowledge to do the job, but gets given it anyway.Situation is not helped by many ploughmen having done judges courses and this highlights untrained(if I can use that description) judges mistakes.This was brought into focus at a match last year, when everyone in the world style were awarded high point through out, lowest was 17! The winner had 18 for every discipline! The match organisers had done a seminar, and privately apologised for the judging, these judges were not biased, just very much out of their depth.

 

[Dealer]

And we go in full circle to the title of the thread

Its that time of year again !!!!

 

[wuddy]

And we go in full circle to the title of the thread

Its that time of year again !!!!

Every thread should just be titled “discussion” as they always end up miles away from where they started! All the best for 2019 everybody!

 

[Ley253]

From my point of view competitors should not be excluded from the plough off due to nationality (I know it’s done in the world style classes at the Scottish)! Chances are if you qualify for an international competition it’s the same guys your going to be up against at least if you have ploughed against them you know how close or far away you are and what parts you need to up your game on to beat them! I was beaten be Richard Ingram at the Scottish but will be representing Scotland at the European next year and have an idea of where I need to improve to have a chance of beating him (putting it into practice is a different story). If he had been removed from the plough off fair enough I would have been Scottish champion but no idea if I was good enough to beat him or not! If you want to be the best you have to plough against the best not have them removed from the class!

No where have I required removal! In fact I would like to see more plough off plots so that they can be accommodated, the fact cannot be denied that the Sop national is run first and foremost to find English reps for the world.The plough off is, in effect the final and all ten plots should go to competitors who can accept the mantle, additional plots should be made available for any visitor who has scored highly enough to have put him in a plough off place, this would ensure max number of poss reps fighting it out for that accolade, whilst in parallel, all the top men would be chasing the national championship.
I find it strange that North of the boarder, they do not do this, just a blanket no. But their situation is different, their match, as is the Welsh, is the official country championship, and awarding that to an outsider may be embarrassing! Perhaps too, I should have been clearer and emphasised that I am only considering qualification for the world match.
The situation could be sorted easily if the SOP national was to be renamed the English championship, but that could cause a serious loss of income, for example, Welsh and Scots firms would not be so keen to take advertising space

 

[Ley253]

Every thread should just be titled “discussion” as they always end up miles away from where they started! All the best for 2019 everybody!

Quite right! But, there`s not much to do these dark, cold nights.

 

[Lurker]

By default, the English world match rep is the English Champion, call him what you will.Or is it your view that his achievement does not warrant such recognition? Would the title also ran, perhaps ride more comfortably?

No by default the English world rep is the English world rep they may or may not be British Champion, what part of there is no such thing as an English Champion do you not understand (Please tell me where the SOP rules it states there is any such thing as an English Champion). To answer you question The English world match rep thoroughly deserves recognition for achieving that status only unless they are also British Champion.

In your own extreme style of scenarios if there were 20 competitors and only one was English, and forget about top ten ploughers going through to the plough offs if the Englishman finished 19th after the first days ploughing, would you still call them a title that does not exist such as "English Champion" even if you got your way and they where allowed through to be the 11th ploughmen in the plough off and still finished 11th would you still award them that title which does not exist?

From my point of view competitors should not be excluded from the plough off due to nationality (I know it’s done in the world style classes at the Scottish)! Chances are if you qualify for an international competition it’s the same guys your going to be up against at least if you have ploughed against them you know how close or far away you are and what parts you need to up your game on to beat them! I was beaten be Richard Ingram at the Scottish but will be representing Scotland at the European next year and have an idea of where I need to improve to have a chance of beating him (putting it into practice is a different story). If he had been removed from the plough off fair enough I would have been Scottish champion but no idea if I was good enough to beat him or not! If you want to be the best you have to plough against the best not have them removed from the class!

Why is that done in the world style classes at the Scottish, it should be in either none of the classes or all of them, I completely agree with your points which you made so well that in your own class ploughing against the top ploughers regardless of nationality rewards you by inspiring you to up your game to be the best you must beat the best, Then surely the exact same should apply to the world style at the Scottish, thus it would encourage your own world style ploughers to up their own game just as they may need to at whatever competitions they may win the right to represent Scotland at, and it would definitely encourage more competitors of other nationalities to make the commitment to going to the Scottish to have the right to be Scottish Champion at world Style classes rather than a mix of classes in the visitors plough off, surely that would benefit everyone in the end. So then basically why do world classes at the Scottish remain configured so only a Scotsman can be Scottish Champion?

 

[wuddy]

No where have I required removal! In fact I would like to see more plough off plots so that they can be accommodated, the fact cannot be denied that the Sop national is run first and foremost to find English reps for the world.The plough off is, in effect the final and all ten plots should go to competitors who can accept the mantle, additional plots should be made available for any visitor who has scored highly enough to have put him in a plough off place, this would ensure max number of poss reps fighting it out for that accolade, whilst in parallel, all the top men would be chasing the national championship.
I find it strange that North of the boarder, they do not do this, just a blanket no. But their situation is different, their match, as is the Welsh, is the official country championship, and awarding that to an outsider may be embarrassing! Perhaps too, I should have been clearer and emphasised that I am only considering qualification for the world match.
The situation could be sorted easily if the SOP national was to be renamed the English championship, but that could cause a serious loss of income, for example, Welsh and Scots firms would not be so keen to take advertising space

It wasn’t aimed at you harry just my general take on the whole thing

 

[wuddy]

No by default the English world rep is the English world rep they may or may not be British Champion, what part of there is no such thing as an English Champion do you not understand (Please tell me where the SOP rules it states there is any such thing as an English Champion). To answer you question The English world match rep thoroughly deserves recognition for achieving that status only unless they are also British Champion.

In your own extreme style of scenarios if there were 20 competitors and only one was English, and forget about top ten ploughers going through to the plough offs if the Englishman finished 19th after the first days ploughing, would you still call them a title that does not exist such as "English Champion" even if you got your way and they where allowed through to be the 11th ploughmen in the plough off and still finished 11th would you still award them that title which does not exist?



Why is that done in the world style classes at the Scottish, it should be in either none of the classes or all of them, I completely agree with your points which you made so well that in your own class ploughing against the top ploughers regardless of nationality rewards you by inspiring you to up your game to be the best you must beat the best, Then surely the exact same should apply to the world style at the Scottish, thus it would encourage your own world style ploughers to up their own game just as they may need to at whatever competitions they may win the right to represent Scotland at, and it would definitely encourage more competitors of other nationalities to make the commitment to going to the Scottish to have the right to be Scottish Champion at world Style classes rather than a mix of classes in the visitors plough off, surely that would benefit everyone in the end. So then basically why do world classes at the Scottish remain configured so only a Scotsman can be Scottish Champion?

I don’t get involved much in the classes I don’t Plough in! As I said if other nationalities had been removed from the plough off I would have been Scottish champion but at the end of the day i am going to the European knowing fine well I need to pull my socks up to even think about winning it, which will come down to the time I have avaliable to practice beforehand, I managed two crowns and a finish before this years Scottish and it showed on the first day in some of the finer details!