THE BADGER CULL

[Doing it for the kids]

Thanks.

Every time debates about Newcastle supporters comes up, if you bring up the protected topic, few can carry on the argument.

Well why could they? High time our protected species list got reviewed.

 

[lazy farmer]

Rubbish, they should sign up without delay!

All very well they haven't got cattle but what about their cattle farming neighbours?

Culling of badgers has been proven 110% to reduce TB in BOTH badgers and cattle.

has it?

 

[lazy farmer]

we are two yrs into the cull and have had no issues with anti s and as an added bonus I have seen my first hedgehog for a decade.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

No one hunts deer as its illegal.

Nothing to stop infected badgers going from a infected farm to a clear farm either.........

Not over here with deer, all hell breaks loose if we see them on farms, just have to remember to stay out of the firing line!

 

[exmoor dave]

For anyone that thinks, "I don't have cattle so why should I sign up"

Remember this, the culls have been structured so the industry takes the lead, this allows us to show how serious we are about dealing with the problem.

The flip side of this is that if the zones fail to get their required sign up, the government will be able to turn around and say "well farmers had the chance but didn't care enough to do it", it gives the government a chance to wash their hands.

My point is, today the problem is TB in cattle, tomorrow it could be something entirerly different in another sector, if we as a industry don't work together now to make a success of the culls, we will not get further assistance on other potential threats in the future.

A failure now is giving the government a free pass at our cost.


Re- the protected status, there is absolutely zero chance of that being revoked,
I like most folk would like to see it changed, but it ain't going to happen, no political party is going to touch that with a barge pole, hence the culls are as they are.

Re- non cattle farmers, forget TB, many sheep farmers have experienced badger attacks on lambs, arable farmers have crops rolled and rooted by badgers.
Obviously there's a whole wildlife issue, including the health of the badgers themselves!


Re- deer, my understanding is that deer are a overspill of the disease just like cattle, so comments that the badger cull is pointless unless the deer are sorted aren't quite right, deer are mostly actively managed anyway,
If the source of infection (badgers are controlled) then surely the knock on benefit will be a massive reduction in deer TB?


Finally those who have a chance to actually do something, spare a though for NT tenants, who have been firmly told they can not take part.

 

[Shadow]

For anyone that thinks, "I don't have cattle so why should I sign up"

Remember this, the culls have been structured so the industry takes the lead, this allows us to show how serious we are about dealing with the problem.

The flip side of this is that if the zones fail to get their required sign up, the government will be able to turn around and say "well farmers had the chance but didn't care enough to do it", it gives the government a chance to wash their hands.

My point is, today the problem is TB in cattle, tomorrow it could be something entirerly different in another sector, if we as a industry don't work together now to make a success of the culls, we will not get further assistance on other potential threats in the future.

A failure now is giving the government a free pass at our cost.


Re- the protected status, there is absolutely zero chance of that being revoked,
I like most folk would like to see it changed, but it ain't going to happen, no political party is going to touch that with a barge pole, hence the culls are as they are.

Re- non cattle farmers, forget TB, many sheep farmers have experienced badger attacks on lambs, arable farmers have crops rolled and rooted by badgers.
Obviously there's a whole wildlife issue, including the health of the badgers themselves!


Re- deer, my understanding is that deer are a overspill of the disease just like cattle, so comments that the badger cull is pointless unless the deer are sorted aren't quite right, deer are mostly actively managed anyway,
If the source of infection (badgers are controlled) then surely the knock on benefit will be a massive reduction in deer TB?


Finally those who have a chance to actually do something, spare a though for NT tenants, who have been firmly told they can not take part.

Excellent post, can't like it enough!

 

[exmoor dave]

Also the clean badger argument, well all of us who have had tb problems once had "clean badgers"..........


In our case not a single case of tb....ever.....til 8 years ago, now we're never more than 12/18mths between breakdowns.

The first thing we noticed previous to our first break down was the increase in badger numbers, you'd go out lamping rabbits and suddenly there seemed to be ground nesting pigs every where.
Then came the tb.


"Clean badgers" just means the tb hasn't got to them yet

 

[exmoor dave]

Excellent post, can't like it enough!

Thanks,

just put 10 reactors on a lorry including 25% of my 3 youngest generations of hill cattle, utterly irreplaceable apart from breeding more and we'd bred them to replace the last major breakdown in that herd.

Heartbroken to be honest.

So feeling fairly strongly about this issue

 

[Lofty1984]

The like was for forging on and not letting it beat you down Dave

 

[Shadow]

Thanks,

just put 10 reactors on a lorry including 25% of my 3 youngest generations of hill cattle, utterly irreplaceable apart from breeding more and we'd bred them to replace the last major breakdown in that herd.

Heartbroken to be honest.

So feeling fairly strongly about this issue

God I really feel for you! I'm dreading the day it gets to us - only a matter of time at the current rate and we are still just establishing our herd. I can only imagine how much worse it is when you are seeing generations of careful breeding going down the pan

 

[matthew]

Some really well argued posts there, for the OP to digest. ^^^

I was, as most will know, all for a targeted cull of infected groups, leaving clean badgers alone. But the belly punch we received from the developer of the screening test, that she was 'not pro cull', left us reeling.

There is a field test which will differentiate between infected animals and non infected, but we are a long way off using that. Even in the Edge areas, where there is nothing at all for cattle farmers, except to watch Defra count an increasing number of RTA infected badgers.

These area culls are far from perfect, with some farmers doing a good job; some not and some scattering infected badger groups. The concept will work better if against another 'area'.

As our sentinel cattle hit the deck every 60 days, there should be no time limit on clearing zTB from any species. It is a Grade 3 pathogen and its maintenance reservoir is an over populated, destructive omnivore. Keep going until the disease is eradicated. And then keep a lid on vector population growth.
Then hug a hedgehog.

 

[Punch]

If the OP lets his land out on a grazing licence, for instance, could the grazier sign up the land?

No.
Have to have control for full four years at outset. Will need LL counter signature. Grazier could make the payment. That's business decision between LL and grazier.
Once legal document signed the cull company has right of access until end of four year cull.
Even if land sold in that time!

 

[ajcc]

Finally those who have a chance to actually do something, spare a though for NT tenants, who have been firmly told they can not take part.[/QUOTE]
This landlord/tenant stance must be challengeable/doubtful in legal precedence.
The NT is currently adopting a populous anti- cull stance but a legal cull of an animal that directly threatens a cattle farmers livelihood must be the tenants right or will the trust be able to ban fox or rat control from its tenants or prevent a tenant from killing a dog savaging his lambing ewes?

 

[gone up the hill]

has it?

Yes and all the data backs that up!

 

[Henery]

The NT stance needs to be challenged at the highest level, come on NFU , time to roll sleeves up and have a go...
if DEFRA are serious about TB then they should support...

 

[caveman]

The NT stance needs to be challenged at the highest level, come on NFU , time to roll sleeves up and have a go...
if DEFRA are serious about TB then they should support...

Maybe if a NT tenant signs up and action is taken against him the NFU will have to get involved with their legal cover insurance

 

[exmoor dave]

This landlord/tenant stance must be challengeable/doubtful in legal precedence.
The NT is currently adopting a populous anti- cull stance but a legal cull of an animal that directly threatens a cattle farmers livelihood must be the tenants right or will the trust be able to ban fox or rat control from its tenants or prevent a tenant from killing a dog savaging his lambing ewes?

There was a time when they made it quite difficult to control pests.
But it's better now.

But we do have to submit our Shotty/ firearms cert and BASC membership each year to get our landlord permission renewed.

Not allowed to touch the holy grail deer

 

[exmoor dave]

Maybe if a NT tenant signs up and action is taken against him the NFU will have to get involved with their legal cover insurance

Realistically no one is likely to risk their current tenancy or succession for the next generation.

It would likely be a weak case, the wildlife is the landlords and that wildlife is a protected species.
So there isn't even a compensation claim like with the deer.

 

[Hampton]

Three pages and the opening poster hasn't added any more to the debate.
Never trust a thread where the opening poster doesn't get involved.

 

[Water Wheel]

Three pages and the opening poster hasn't added any more to the debate.
Never trust a thread where the opening poster doesn't get involved.

Dose it matter ?
Some very good posts, and with the hopeful expansion of culls over the next year or two, plenty of others must be going through the same thought process.