The Brexit Negotiations

Discussion in 'Brexit & Politics' started by The Donald, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. John Redwood's diary
    Let’s stop negotiating with ourselves
    Posted: 15 Jul 2017 10:08 PM PDT
    There are endless discussions in some of the media and in Parliament about what concessions the UK should offer. Why don’t they understand the negotiations may go on for 19 more months? The EU has not yet made a sensible offer or explained how it wishes to maintain full tariff free access to our market with no new barriers. Why do they keep on recycling the same old stale stories, and the same old failed lines from the Remain campaign?

    Some people are in danger once again of mistaking media noise for change of policy. The government’s policy of Brexit was clearly laid out in the Article 50 letter, the supporting Act of Parliament, Lancaster House speech and White Paper. it is not changing. It is now embodied in the EU Withdrawal Bill.

    If the media had any interest in news rather than olds they would go off and interview the other member states about their negotiating aims and their attitudes towards the EU approach so far. They would go and ask German car companies, French dairy farmers, Dutch market gardeners, Danish pig farmers and the rest what they want the EU to achieve on the trade front.

    There is no need to offer the EU any money over and above our legal obligations. If you have to pay to trade the cheapest way is to adopt WTO tariffs, and then negotiate away the tariffs with countries outside the EU to get us even better access to their markets and to cut import prices. If you had to pay a fixed up front sum to trade related to the volume of your trade they would be paying us more than we pay them, which is extremely unlikely. We are offering them free access to our market.

    The UK voters were very clear when they voted to take back control. Taking control of our money was the central feature of the Vote Leave campaign. There are plenty of good uses for that £12bn net saving. it would be a good idea if the media had a few interviews with interested parties on how we should spend that money, or whether we should give some back to taxpayers.

    There is no sign of the government weakening its line on the money, as the Foreign Secretary has recently made clear in his vivid if unorthodox language.
    Henarar and Old McDonald like this.
  2. Old McDonald

    Old McDonald Member

    Inland Portugal
    @nivilla1982 Thanks for posting that. As he says near the beginning, the EU has not made a sensible offer.

    Not that it bothers me because I have no qualms that I will be kicked out, but what have they offered to UK ex-pats living in the EU? It must be a worry for those who want to spend the rest of their lives where they now live. This includes several members of TFF.
    wanton dwarf and nivilla1982 like this.

  3. Nah(y)

  4. wanton dwarf

    wanton dwarf Member

    Hmmm ... but you left the UK and from what I understand the basis of leaving it certainly was not because you were "happy".

    If you are so easily turned against 65,000,000 people ... I wonder where do you actually fit in.

    Perhaps a good thing you cannot understand all of those around you.

    Ignorance is bliss ?
    Henarar, czechmate and Old McDonald like this.
  5. Old McDonald

    Old McDonald Member

    Inland Portugal
    It is good that you are not worried about your future in France. I would not feel so comfortable there as I do here. Will they be so keen to have you as a French citizen after Brexit? "Yond Macron has a lean and hungry look". In your position I would still be looking towards Cz for citizenship whatever the difficulties. Fortunately I am determined to remain British - and die there.

  6. You say your wife does all the cooking. I suppose that leaves you with an appertite for stirring (n)
  7. Henarar

    Henarar Member

    ZumerZet Somerset
    Pot kettle and no mistake coming from you
    czechmate likes this.
  8. manhill

    manhill Member

    Can you lot not stop being so bitchy.
    You're like a bunch of bitter old wimmen!
    '2 old maids had she cat, kept it in doors night and day, kept it away from the he cats, thought it would like it better that way'
    Then one old maid went and got married, next morning she hastened to write, a note to the other which simply said 'let kitty out tonight'
    Irrelevant I know, just felt like remembering Benny
  9. Ashtree

    Ashtree Member

    Bitchy did you say:oops:
    Have you not noticed Brexit's dear leaders these days!
    Boris tells EU go whistle for their settlement money to rapturous applause from the disciples on here.(y)
    Next day D Davis comes straight out and disses Boris by saying of course Britain will pay it's bill.:banghead:
    Yesterday Hammond comes on TV and accuses the Brexit Taliban in the party of stabbing him in the back:cautious:

    Tories eh. Disunited for decades pre Brexit and now post Brexit more disunited than ever ...... or maybe they are just being bitchy:whistle::whistle:

  10. Welcome to post brexit UK :(
  11. Pasty

    Pasty Member

    Are you suggested that the Labour party is united? I guess the 'Momentum' lot are. Like a dog with a bone, they have a single mission to wipe out any hint of moderation or centre line politics from the party and return it to the hard left. They are succeeding too and their recent success will only fuel their desire. They have maybe a tenth of a chance to get into government. After that they will send the party into oblivion for a few more decades. Meanwhile the ghost of the warmonger Blair is hanging around like a bad smell, reminding us all how little regard he has for democracy and why we grew to despise him so deeply.
  12. Henarar

    Henarar Member

    ZumerZet Somerset
    yea they are terrible for being bitchy
  13. Pasty

    Pasty Member

    Tell it to the hand girlfriend.
  14. RobFZS

    RobFZS Member

    Brexit has just uncovered how hopeless the British Political system is now it's being weened off Brussels,no doubt it's the same for most other countries, a better type of politician will eventually step up to the plate and deliver us better governance
    Jason, Pasty and czechmate like this.
  15. Pasty

    Pasty Member

    Much truth in that. We can't expect great leaders to come to the fore when they are expected to be subordinates to a foreign power.
    RobFZS likes this.
  16. In the EU we did not have any Parliamentary control over new EU laws
    By JOHNREDWOOD | Published: JULY 17, 2017
    What a nonsense this row is about so called Henry VIII clauses.

    All our current EU laws either were imposed direct with no reference at all to Parliament, or had to be voted through Parliament as Statutory Instruments in order to comply with decisions already made by Brussels. Thousands of EU laws became our laws with no opportunity for Parliament to debate and vote on them as draft Acts of Parliament. Parliament was warned it could not vote down SIs that were needed to implement Directives, and an alliance of the two main front benches ensured they always passed.

    Now Parliament is debating at great length transferring all these laws into UK laws by a full Act of Parliament. Thereafter if we wish to change any of them we will be able to so, but again it will take a full Act of Parliament to do so. That is the restoration of the democratic control we voted for.

    Because the draft Act says Ministers for a 2 year period may make technical adjustments so these laws still work in the way intended once they are Uk law by passing a Statutory Instrument Labour is wrongly saying this is not democratic.

    The power will only be used for technical changes like striking out reference to other member states in what becomes a UK law, or substituting a UK’s court or other body to adjudicate or act where an EU institution does at the moment. Parliament will still be involved as any Statutory Instrument can be debated and voted on if the Opposition wishes.

    It is embarrassing to hear and see so much airtime given over to this non story. Why did we never hear about the complete absence of democracy for all those laws the EU imposed on us? Why was it right to allow SIs for major changes to our law when it came from the EU, yet it is not even allowed to use SIs for technical changes to keep the purpose and effectiveness of the inherited EU law?
    alex04w and Henarar like this.
  17. linga

    linga Member

    But he didnt say that did he.
    What he said was that the EU can go whistle for their unreasonable demands and that seems very reasonable to me.
    David Davies likewise did not say that Britain would pay what the EU demanded unreasonably but would pay for its obligations.
    Very similar sentiments I thought.
    Osca, alex04w, Storeman and 3 others like this.
  18. caveman

    caveman Member

    East Sussex.
    He was only following on from a back benchers suggestion anyways.
    He could hardly reply to the fellas intervention that we should pay whatever was demanded.
  19. Ashtree

    Ashtree Member

    Maybe Boris should get more assertive as one of the Brexit architects now claims Davis is "thick as mince"!
    Mind you Davis did look rather uninterested to say the least as he sat across the table from the Eurocrats. Eurocrats with comprehensive position papers at the ready. Davis with nothing!! Then he toddles back to London at lunchtime. :rolleyes:
  20. caveman

    caveman Member

    East Sussex.
    Delegation my dear chap
    They know the UKs position on the items on the table at the moment

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