The British countryside is being killed by herbicides and insecticides!

[mikep]

L OCO

 

[roscoe erf]

And we are not at all in any way whatsoever biased are we ?

no we are not are you

 

[Osca]

So basically, you don't trust The Guardian or The Independent, or any of their sources ... or the 50 different organisations who contributed detailed information for that report.

I assume then that you only trust reports that state that farmers have had no part to play in the decline of Insect, Wildflower & Bird species etc. in our countryside.

Perhaps you'd like to post a link to a study which clears farmers of any blame.

Interesting, so can we assume then that you have no actual evidence, or real arguments, to back up your attitude towards the evidence & findings of all those credible organisations?

It is one thing to prove the existence of something; quite another to prove it's NON-existence.
Think about it.
Farmers, per se, are NOT responsible for destroying the British countryside, except in as much as they are part of the population / culture as a whole; just as the Ptarmigans and Fallowfields amongst us are part of that same population - and probably - no, CERTAINLY - have, over the years, caused much greater damage, by their over-vocal outrage and well-meaning ignorance; the failure to maintain heather moor is the latest thing, isn't it; but also there is the failure to maintain watercourses leading to massive flooding, and the failure to understand balance in wild populations, leading to disease, misery and destruction of the vulnerable by the over-increase in predators.

Farmers have not done this - it is yourselves, Fallowfield and Ptarmigan; and you should both be thoroughly ashamed.

However, you want evidence of farmers NOT doing something... maybe you should just read this forum a little more thoroughly and with an open mind, and you will see evidence of farmers farming responsibly and with the understanding and knowledge which you two clearly lack.

The trouble with these “reports” is that they, the newspapers and the organisations who have an axe to grind, latch on to the easiest target and embellish with wilfully ignorant glee rather than tackle the more complex issue which might upset their urban readership.

The favourite is hedge removal! Hands up who’s removed a hedge in the last 30 years? Now, hands up who’s planted one? I’m willing to bet my meagre, child reduced beer allowance that more have been planted in the last 30 years than have been removed, yet that stick is always taken out to beat the farmer with.

Plant protection product and fertiliser use has consistently reduced year on year for the last 30 years, due to IPM strategies, legislation, increased organic area and land lost to development, yet we are supposedly using ever more of them?

Beetle banks, field margins, wild flower mixes, set aside (that was), endless NGO’s sending smiley faces around to “advise” farmers, yet farmers are still murdering the countryside?! Is it possible that all the smiley advice is actually wrong and that the powers that be are simply ignoring the real problem. There are too many people in the UK!

Housing, roads and roundabouts are the reason hedges are pulled out these days, not farmers. The inconvenient truth is that the over zealous protection of badgers are one of the key reasons hedge hogs and wild birds are in decline.

Domestic cats do more damage to bird life than even the most trigger happy farmer, but we can’t say that of course for fear of upsetting the crazy cat ladies who also donate their savings to the RSPB, once their half cat-eaten remains have been discovered.

There are more trees in the UK now than there has been for 400 years, but apparently the British landscape has been completely denuded of these vital pieces of countryside apparatus.

How many people patrol the footpaths that cross their land picking up rubbish and dog sh1t that the agriculturally outraged general public leave behind?

Now, I’m not saying that farmers are completely absolved of guilt on the environmental vandalism charge, it is far from a perfect system, but balance is needed in the reporting and those publishing these articles need to be held to account. But also the public, and government, need to accept some responsibility for the current situation. It is they who have demanded accessibility over seasonality, price over credibility, aesthetic quality over nutritional quality and convenience over knowledge, then lambast the farmer for obliging them.

Rant over![emoji56]

If it wasn't for the cat paragraph I would really like that post.
But speaking as a mad cat lady I would say (based on observation of my own cats) that felines in this country have been part of the ecology for so long that removing them would cause some imbalance elsewhere - almost certainly a plague of rodents. Meanwhile the extra small birds would just get taken out by hawks - or (as also happened here amongst tits and finches, a few years ago) a passing on of disease at heavily frequented bird tables. (Some sort of parasitical worm in this case).

Rabbit populations here rise and fall, usually with myxy and the weather.There are plenty this year - so, sorry, Ptarmigan, but rabbits are absolutely NOT in danger. Clearly you have been mislead again; as will happen all too often if you read a puerile rag like the Guardian.

 

[CornishTone]

Tongue firmly in cheek @Osca!

 

[Werzle]

Idiot from plantlife was on tv this weekend calling for verges not to be mown, verges are covered in ragwart and thistles which should never be allowed. His wildflower meadows look more like waste ground and perhaps his time would be better spent pulling weeds.

 

[Fallowfield]

Idiot from plantlife was on tv this weekend calling for verges not to be mown, verges are covered in ragwart and thistles which should never be allowed. His wildflower meadows look more like waste ground and perhaps his time would be better spent pulling weeds.

Didn't see that. Was the idiot calling for verges not to be mown at all, or for mowing to be restricted to certain times? Did he think that not mowing would be good for insects? Or plants?

 

[Werzle]

The idiot put all the blame on farmers for the decrease in butterflys and insects, he declared that acres of flower meadows and p-pasture were being ploughed up every year and that new developments had no impact at all. He wanted verges left or cut later at the very least. I have know problem with verges left uncut as long as it doesnt affect road safety and that all weeds , docks, thistles and ragwart are pulled before seeding tbh.

 

[Fallowfield]

The idiot put all the blame on farmers for the decrease in butterflys and insects, he declared that acres of flower meadows and p-pasture were being ploughed up every year and that new developments had no impact at all. He wanted verges left or cut later at the very least. I have know problem with verges left uncut as long as it doesnt affect road safety and that all weeds , docks, thistles and ragwart are pulled before seeding tbh.

Which programme was this?

 

[Clive]

no we are not are you

of course we are, me included, its only normal to "talk your own book"

As farmers we have done many thing wrong in the past (DDT etc ?) and i'm sure we continue to do so today, juts look at theads and controversy on twitter this year re spraying pollen beetle etc on OSR in flower

anyone thinking we are perfect and do no harm is deluded, question is is the harm worth the result, people have to eat !

 

[Werzle]

Which programme was this?

BBC 1 morning news saturday or sunday morning.

 

[Ukjay]

question is is the harm worth the result, people have to eat !

Fortunately though - it appears some are starting to consider the true impacts caused to mass produce food are simply to high to be sustained.
Now, the real threat to the positive change is peoples persistent belief that food should be kept unrealistically cheap, then continue to throw a high % of their weekly shop in the bin, as they over bought as it is easy to buy more.

 

[Macsky]

One thing that really annoys me is the fact that all of the damage done by questionable chemical sprays lands squarely at farmer’s feet. This is totally unfair, farmers did not develop these products and should therefor never be held responsible for their undesirable side effects! This responsibility should lie completely in the hands of the massive companies that produce, promote and profit wildly from them.

I’m not sure people fully appreciate how government has shaped farming over the decades, it’s influence is almost total. If people want environment to be the number one priority then the government can make it so. There is no one more able or better placed than farmers to deliver whatever environmental goals are wanted, all that is needed is money to make it happen.

Perhaps in a time of cheap global food supplies, we should take a serious look at our soils, and put ‘production at all costs’ on the back burner for a generation and get our land, the length and breadth of the country, back in good heart.

Livestock rotations back on arable ground (mob grazing herbal leys)
Field drainage
Liming
Installing hedges
Increase legumes in grassland(reduce N apps)
Organic conversion?
Etc etc

All of this will be happening already, but perhaps it should be promoted and facilitated much more by government.

 

[Ukjay]

One thing that really annoys me is the fact that all of the damage done by questionable chemical sprays lands squarely at farmer’s feet. This is totally unfair, farmers did not develop these products and should therefor never be held responsible for their undesirable side effects! This responsibility should lie completely in the hands of the massive companies that produce, promote and profit wildly from them.

I’m not sure people fully appreciate how government has shaped farming over the decades, it’s influence is almost total. If people want environment to be the number one priority then the government can make it so. There is no one more able or better placed than farmers to deliver whatever environmental goals are wanted, all that is needed is money to make it happen.

Perhaps in a time of cheap global food supplies, we should take a serious look at our soils, and put ‘production at all costs’ on the back burner for a generation and get our land, the length and breadth of the country, back in good heart.

Livestock rotations back on arable ground (mob grazing herbal leys)
Field drainage
Liming
Installing hedges
Increase legumes in grassland(reduce N apps)
Organic conversion?
Etc etc

All of this will be happening already, but perhaps it should be promoted and facilitated much more by government.

Personally, I belive we should be focussing more about the 'Now', rather than dwelling on the past indescretions etc, and we cannot remove the fact that we do need to be accountable for our own actions if we are not learning from the past mistakes that we now know a lot more about.
Yes the Chem companies got fat out of this and had great marketing teams - but the farming industry is full of very cleaver people too, who would have known that things did not / do not stack up in the way the companies were being pushed along the paths, but still they followed the path due to the visible increases in output.
Money is a powerfull thing - and it does lead to poor decisions sometimes, and now we will be / are paying the price - and it is not just farming I am talking about, I am referring to many areas of industry and the back pockets making the decisions.

 

[Bootneck]