The Budget 2017 and Agriculture .

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
I think you could cut the NHS budget by 20% and never know it had happened.

The inefficiency, waste and miss-management create costs and losses of biblical proportions!!

£1,200,000,000 at the last count, that is £38.00 per second, 24 hrs day, 7 days per week.

The politicising of the NHS has, and will continue to be, it's ruination.

As for NI, the Cons pledged not to increase, presented badly at the budget and suffered the consequences.

Maybe they did the NI intentionally....so they could slip the probate fees through.

Cynical I know...!
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
I think you could cut the NHS budget by 20% and never know it had happened.

The inefficiency, waste and miss-management create costs and losses of biblical proportions!!

£1,200,000,000 at the last count, that is £38.00 per second, 24 hrs day, 7 days per week.

The politicising of the NHS has, and will continue to be, it's ruination.

As for NI, the Cons pledged not to increase, presented badly at the budget and suffered the consequences.

It's not a matter of cutting funding as the UK already spends less on healthcare than most developed countries. It's a matter of making sure that funding actually goes to healthcare and not ambulance chasing lawyers, endless groups of managers and business consultants. Malingers and bed blockers should be moved into alternative social services accommodation. GP appointments should be changed for like dentists, the list could go on.
 

thesilentone

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
It's not a matter of cutting funding as the UK already spends less on healthcare than most developed countries. It's a matter of making sure that funding actually goes to healthcare and not ambulance chasing lawyers, endless groups of managers and business consultants. Malingers and bed blockers should be moved into alternative social services accommodation. GP appointments should be changed for like dentists, the list could go on.

Muck Spreader, I agree with most of your comments, but I can guarantee, lots of the above are politically motivated (especially bed blocking) however, the ambulance chasing is a major major issue for all of our futures. I am NOT promoting private care, but we need to be much more robust if we are to live with the scare story's below.

Hospital chiefs have earmarked £56billion to pay for medical mistakes by its staff, according to official statistics.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/74...tion-negligence-cases-national-health-service
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
It's not a matter of cutting funding as the UK already spends less on healthcare than most developed countries. It's a matter of making sure that funding actually goes to healthcare and not ambulance chasing lawyers, endless groups of managers and business consultants. Malingers and bed blockers should be moved into alternative social services accommodation. GP appointments should be changed for like dentists, the list could go on.

I'm not sure I agree about charging for appts, though possibly something could be arranged to stop wasting GPs time. Charging for appts would/may discourage some from going to the doctor in the first place with something minor, ignoring it and then needing something more major on the NHS at a later date which would prove even more costly. Better things are caught early (cancer etc) and people don't ignore going to the doc because of the charge.

Muck Spreader, I agree with most of your comments, but I can guarantee, lots of the above are politically motivated (especially bed blocking) however, the ambulance chasing is a major major issue for all of our futures. I am NOT promoting private care, but we need to be much more robust if we are to live with the scare story's below.

Hospital chiefs have earmarked £56billion to pay for medical mistakes by its staff, according to official statistics.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/74...tion-negligence-cases-national-health-service

Bed blocking politically motivated...? How so please?
 

thesilentone

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
I'm not sure I agree about charging for appts, though possibly something could be arranged to stop wasting GPs time. Charging for appts would/may discourage some from going to the doctor in the first place with something minor, ignoring it and then needing something more major on the NHS at a later date which would prove even more costly. Better things are caught early (cancer etc) and people don't ignore going to the doc because of the charge.



Bed blocking politically motivated...? How so please?

The issue over social care in the home is an interesting argument that I would prefer to keep away from, as I would regarding Junior Doctors ' only striking because patient safety is at risk ' But, my one and only contribution to the argument is this. Not every patient so called ' bed blocking ' is without family and dependants.
The first responsibility should be with the family, not the state !! In addition, for those who have been unfortunate enough to have to stay in Hospital, try and get out ! If any form of prescription medicine is required, it would be easier to get out of Colditz.
The sad day will arise when we all sign a disclaimer when we need medical care as the service ties itself in so much red-tape about who is responsible for what, due to it's political property.
The NHS beast is out of control, good people getting lost in a bureaucratic maize of targets, red tape, h&s, political correctness and apathy.
If it were a business it would be closed down.
Currently every tax payer, pays on average around £370.00 per year for the NHS, which can be great again if managed.

Edited:should be £3700.00
 
Last edited:

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
The issue over social care in the home is an interesting argument that I would prefer to keep away from, as I would regarding Junior Doctors ' only striking because patient safety is at risk ' But, my one and only contribution to the argument is this. Not every patient so called ' bed blocking ' is without family and dependants.
The first responsibility should be with the family, not the state !! In addition, for those who have been unfortunate enough to have to stay in Hospital, try and get out ! If any form of prescription medicine is required, it would be easier to get out of Colditz.
The sad day will arise when we all sign a disclaimer when we need medical care as the service ties itself in so much red-tape about who is responsible for what, due to it's political property.
The NHS beast is out of control, good people getting lost in a bureaucratic maize of targets, red tape, h&s, political correctness and apathy.
If it were a business it would be closed down.
Currently every tax payer, pays on average around £370.00 per year for the NHS, which can be great again if managed.

I am surprised that it works out as cheap as that, but I will take your word for it. Here, Mrs Muck and I pay roughly £7000 per year NI (that does include sick-pay and pensions etc) including top-up health insurance and as peasants we get off lightly. And that is still probably cheap compared to the US.
 

thesilentone

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
I am surprised that it works out as cheap as that, but I will take your word for it. Here, Mrs Muck and I pay roughly £7000 per year NI (that does include sick-pay and pensions etc) including top-up health insurance and as peasants we get off lightly. And that is still probably cheap compared to the US.

You are right to correct me, it works out at around £3400.00 average per tax payer.
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
Fair enough, thesilentone.

However, although there are 35m taxpayers currently in the UK, due to the continuing effect of Gordon Brown's tax credits system there are now only some 19m net taxpayers.

So it's well over £6000 each, in fact, over £13000 for any two.

Remember that only about a third the gov's revenue comes directly from peoples NI and income tax, the rest comes from corp tax, Vat, fuel duty etc and they always have to borrow considerably more to balance the books. So I make it that all our income tax and and NI payments just about cover the Health service and our pensions.
 
The issue over social care in the home is an interesting argument that I would prefer to keep away from, as I would regarding Junior Doctors ' only striking because patient safety is at risk ' But, my one and only contribution to the argument is this. Not every patient so called ' bed blocking ' is without family and dependants.
The first responsibility should be with the family, not the state !! In addition, for those who have been unfortunate enough to have to stay in Hospital, try and get out ! If any form of prescription medicine is required, it would be easier to get out of Colditz.
The sad day will arise when we all sign a disclaimer when we need medical care as the service ties itself in so much red-tape about who is responsible for what, due to it's political property.
The NHS beast is out of control, good people getting lost in a bureaucratic maize of targets, red tape, h&s, political correctness and apathy.
If it were a business it would be closed down.
Currently every tax payer, pays on average around £370.00 per year for the NHS, which can be great again if managed.
My father has a form of cancer, the treatment of which would probably kill him, he had one dose of chemo which nearly did so they stopped treatment but that does seem to have left the cancer dormant. He also has dementia which is getting progressively worse. When he was discharged from hospital in October 2014 he was more or less sent home to die, he had lost 5 stone in weight in hospital and they said he'd never eat solid food again. This turned out to be far from the truth as once back home he ate properly and was soon coming out and about with me in the Land Rover and we even had him in the tractor a few times.

But just before Christmas 2015 he got pneumonia and had to go into hospital for a few days but once in they weren't willing to let him home, said we couldn't look after him properly, but as he doesn't like hospital food mother was going in twice a day to feed him. Seven weeks of arguing it took to get him home and in all the time he was in there they never got him out of bed once, they wanted him in a care home. Before going in, although not particularly mobile he always came to the table for meals and although he wore nappies for accidents he would tell us when he wanted to go on the kamode. So that was seven weeks they just let him sh!t and pee( I wonder what the swear filter will say) in nappies in bed. And they have the cheek not only to tell us we can't look after him properly , they also talk of bed blocking!

I really feel sorry for anyone elderly who has no one to care for them, I'm 100% sure that if dad had been left in the care of the state for too long he would be dead today.
 

thesilentone

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
My father has a form of cancer, the treatment of which would probably kill him, he had one dose of chemo which nearly did so they stopped treatment but that does seem to have left the cancer dormant. He also has dementia which is getting progressively worse. When he was discharged from hospital in October 2014 he was more or less sent home to die, he had lost 5 stone in weight in hospital and they said he'd never eat solid food again. This turned out to be far from the truth as once back home he ate properly and was soon coming out and about with me in the Land Rover and we even had him in the tractor a few times.

But just before Christmas 2015 he got pneumonia and had to go into hospital for a few days but once in they weren't willing to let him home, said we couldn't look after him properly, but as he doesn't like hospital food mother was going in twice a day to feed him. Seven weeks of arguing it took to get him home and in all the time he was in there they never got him out of bed once, they wanted him in a care home. Before going in, although not particularly mobile he always came to the table for meals and although he wore nappies for accidents he would tell us when he wanted to go on the kamode. So that was seven weeks they just let him sh!t and pee( I wonder what the swear filter will say) in nappies in bed. And they have the cheek not only to tell us we can't look after him properly , they also talk of bed blocking!

I really feel sorry for anyone elderly who has no one to care for them, I'm 100% sure that if dad had been left in the care of the state for too long he would be dead today.

Yes, I had a similar experience with my own mother.

With elderly patients, someone, somewhere seems to make a decision on quality of life for the patient and the care they may require long-term, then irrespective of their family make life or death decisions.
 
Yes, I had a similar experience with my own mother.

With elderly patients, someone, somewhere seems to make a decision on quality of life for the patient and the care they may require long-term, then irrespective of their family make life or death decisions.
Life or death decisions would be hard, bloody hard but what father went through in hospital was pretty much neglect. He might have dementia but in some respects his mind is very sharp, he regularly outwits me and says something to make us laugh most days......and he knows it!
 

joe soapy

Member
Location
devon
I said back when labour was chucked out, all the public services should have had their budgets cut by 50%
and told to continue provide the same level of service.
Dealing with various bodies since has reinforced
Yes, I had a similar experience with my own mother.

With elderly patients, someone, somewhere seems to make a decision on quality of life for the patient and the care they may require long-term, then irrespective of their family make life or death decisions.

Was ;ike that with FIL. you could see he had not moved in bed for some time, food uneaten, had that sweet smell just like staggers. told the head nurse and she laughed at me.
Anyway, something must have sunk in, he walked out of hospital next day
 
Can a patient's family insist they be discharged or does the patient have to be compus enough to discharge themself?
Ideally the family need to have power of attorney to make decisions in the patients behalf. Otherwise it will be a fair struggle as medical professionals can pretty much over rule the wishes of the family. In a case with dementia their is policy that the patient needs to be in familiar surroundings so nowt better than at home with family but it still isn't easy. They had classified my father as violent which didn't help our case but that was because he doesn't react well to strangers, something that's quite normal with dementia. One of the things that helped us a lot was that we had documented any problems over his stay in hospital and we actually had quite a long list. Top tip here, if ever in a meeting with hospital staff have pen and paper to hand and take notes of everything they say. They will and do change their minds a lot. I went to one meeting with mother and they opened up with the fact that mother had asked that father be put in a home, there's no way on earth that she would have requested this but they were trying to bully her, no other word to it. When she challenged them on this point they rather snottily said "oh, you're changing your mind now are you"
Just because they work for the hospital don't assume they are all good Honest people they're just working for the system and want you out of their hair and will do pretty much whatever it takes. This is where notes help as they will often contradict each other and you need to be able to read out to them what someone else has said and when.
In the end we had quite a file of hospital cock ups and inconsistency I think they decided it was easier to let him go home.

Could write an awfull lot more but need to go, if anyone's having any problems like this and needs someone to talk to feel free to contact me, I'm certainly no expert but am happy to give the benefit of my experiences if it helps anyone.
Final message, don't trust them, don't believe they know best your relative is just another number in the system to be processed.
 

Nearly

Member
Location
North of York
This was in the small print and will probably effect many on here:-

From May, the cost of applying for probate will rise by as much as 9,000 per cent despite public opposition. Probate fees have typically just covered the cost of giving permission to hand out someone’s assets – the probate registry’s administration and staffing costs. Under the current system, estates worth more than £15,000 have to apply for probate. This is done by the executor of that person’s will. The fee is £215 and is paid to the probate registry.
At a time of distress, this rise will cause difficulty in funding these fees, which need to be paid in addition to the funeral expenses and inheritance tax before the executors can access the deceased’s assets”.

There will be no fee for estates under £50,000 – about 58 per cent of all estates.

After that it is £300 for estates worth up to £300,000; £1,000 for estates worth more than £300,000 and up to £500,000; £4,000 for estates worth more than £500,000 and up to £1million; £8,000 for estates worth more than £1million and up to £1.6million; £12,000 for estates worth more than £1.6million and up to £2million; and, £20,000 for estates worth more than £2million.
A straight tax on dying!

Cancelled today. About the only good news this week.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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