The Cross slot vs 750a trial

I think @SilliamWhale should take the firming wheel and closing wheel off his drill as it obviously won't make any difference to the yield

It might it might not. It increases the reliability of the stand but it doesn't mean it gives me extra yield over other drills.

Which direct drill manufacturers produce drills which produce low yielding crops? No one has told me yet.
 
Location
Cambridge
It might it might not. It increases the reliability of the stand but it doesn't mean it gives me extra yield over other drills.
Stand is correlated to yield?

So drill quality is correlated to reliability of stand, which is correlated to yield.

Therefore drill quality is correlated to average yield over a number of years.

Or have I misunderstood you?
 
Which direct drills of the current stable of drills produce a consistently lower yield than the rest or which one produces higher yields?

Are you on a mission to see how much of every bodies time you can single handedly waste?

It's not about which drills 'consistently produce lower yields...... I know of none, and conversely I know that all the different designs can go very well. Probably in contrast to most if not all other mainstream ag operations no till seed drills are dealing with a combination of soil, weather, agronomic decisions etc not only at the time of drilling but what goes before and what happens soon after drilling can reflect on the result.

The interactions between those factors and the importance of their influence change. One example might be that on good quality free draining soil the weather has less influence because nice drilling conditions are so readily achieved and extremes if rainfall are not damaging.

You keep qualify this 'machinery has no influence' standpoint by saying provided that, or as long as ..... So in the numerous occasions where satisfactory seedlings aren't established, what then? do you ignore those as a freak of nature without an honest assessment of the reason. And I'll say it again, it is easily possible to establish good numbers only to have them perform poorly latter.
 
Location
Cambridge
Which direct drills of the current stable of drills produce a consistently lower yield than the rest or which one produces higher yields?
I don't know, but that hardly makes it an invalid point.

You've already said that changing the configuration of your drill could affect yields.

Therefore it's obviously true that other drills, as they are not identical to a 750a, could also produce different yields.

Good trolling though, well done
 
I don't know, but that hardly makes it an invalid point.

You've already said that changing the configuration of your drill could affect yields.

Therefore it's obviously true that other drills, as they are not identical to a 750a, could also produce different yields.

Good trolling though, well done

Prove it then in your trial. Prove the differences that are attributable to the drill. We shall see next year. I'll say you will not have a yield difference attributable to the drill.
 
Location
Cambridge
Prove it then in your trial. Prove the differences that are attributable to the drill. We shall see next year. I'll say you will not have a yield difference attributable to the drill.
Zzzzzz

Don't misrepresent what I've said. Which has never been that there will be a difference. In fact as you can read one or two pages ago, I'm expecting there not to be a difference in my situation.

But extrapolating that viewpoint to saying there will never be a difference under any circumstances is not valid.
 
Zzzzzz

Don't misrepresent what I've said. Which has never been that there will be a difference. In fact as you can read one or two pages ago, I'm expecting there not to be a difference in my situation.

But extrapolating that viewpoint to saying there will never be a difference under any circumstances is not valid.

I'm saying provided you get the plant count you want emerged after drilling then you cannot expect the drill to have an influence on yield beyond this. Once it's up and running the drills job is done, I don't agree that the drills influence goes much beyond this moment.
 
Are you on a mission to see how much of every bodies time you can single handedly waste?

It's not about which drills 'consistently produce lower yields...... I know of none, and conversely I know that all the different designs can go very well. Probably in contrast to most if not all other mainstream ag operations no till seed drills are dealing with a combination of soil, weather, agronomic decisions etc not only at the time of drilling but what goes before and what happens soon after drilling can reflect on the result.

The interactions between those factors and the importance of their influence change. One example might be that on good quality free draining soil the weather has less influence because nice drilling conditions are so readily achieved and extremes if rainfall are not damaging.

You keep qualify this 'machinery has no influence' standpoint by saying provided that, or as long as ..... So in the numerous occasions where satisfactory seedlings aren't established, what then? do you ignore those as a freak of nature without an honest assessment of the reason. And I'll say it again, it is easily possible to establish good numbers only to have them perform poorly latter.

So three weeks after emergence of a seedling you think it's common to get a crop failure that is attributable to the drill? Especially as we've established that most direct drills are more or less capable of doing the job intended, there are anomlies now and again of course because you can't predict the weather but you cannot consistently say any of the pieces of metal on the market are inherently yield limiting.

Do you think a fleet of different make power harrow drill combinations or cultivater drills will produce wildly different results in a given field?
 
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Very magnanimous

What? Presumably you think drilling has an influence up to day of harvest? I don't, beyond the first few weeks of establisment I think the plants do it themselves with help of fert, chems and weather by then.

I've yet to see much genuine data from a drill trial showing big yield differences in the same locations.
 
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Richard III

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
CW5 Cheshire
I'm saying provided you get the plant count you want emerged after drilling then you cannot expect the drill to have an influence on yield beyond this. Once it's up and running the drills job is done, I don't agree that the drills influence goes much beyond this moment.

I pretty much agree with Silliam, a drills job is to get a seed into the ground in such a way that it will germinate and not be hollowed by a slug. There are however a couple of ways a drill can influence yield a little after that, sometimes a degree of soil mineralisation through soil movement can benefit establishment and conversely sometimes lack of soil movement can aid weed control.

When looking at drill trials there are often confounding factors that get in the way of judging which is the best drill. Sam Moore likes to point out that his old Moore drill produced better results than a 750a in a trial in Germany, this was apparently due to his drill mineralising more N than the 750a. Another issue is that the optimum plant stand for a field is impossible to know at drilling time, sometimes thinner crops can yield better than thicker and vice versa. If the chosen drilling rate turns out to be above the optimum for the year, a drill with a poorer establishment rate can give a higher yield, but is it a better drill?

Trials are great to see how different drills cope in different soils and conditions, but after measuring the resulting plant stands, I'm not sure it is worth monitoring much further.
 
Location
Cambridge
What? Presumably you think drilling has an influence up to day of harvest? I don't, beyond the first few weeks of establisment I think the plants do it themselves with help of fert, chems and weather by then.

I've yet to see much genuine data from a drill trial showing big yield differences in the same locations.
Where did I say that the effect lasted after the act of drilling (hint: I didn't)?

You have already said that different drills are more or less successful at germinating seeds.

So unless you think that germination rates have no bearing on yields whatsoever, then your viewpoint is that different drills can show different yields.

QED
 
I pretty much agree with Silliam, a drills job is to get a seed into the ground in such a way that it will germinate and not be hollowed by a slug. There are however a couple of ways a drill can influence yield a little after that, sometimes a degree of soil mineralisation through soil movement can benefit establishment and conversely sometimes lack of soil movement can aid weed control.

When looking at drill trials there are often confounding factors that get in the way of judging which is the best drill. Sam Moore likes to point out that his old Moore drill produced better results than a 750a in a trial in Germany, this was apparently due to his drill mineralising more N than the 750a. Another issue is that the optimum plant stand for a field is impossible to know at drilling time, sometimes thinner crops can yield better than thicker and vice versa. If the chosen drilling rate turns out to be above the optimum for the year, a drill with a poorer establishment rate can give a higher yield, but is it a better drill?

Trials are great to see how different drills cope in different soils and conditions, but after measuring the resulting plant stands, I'm not sure it is worth monitoring much further.

Prepared to be swarmed by a priggish kiwi who's swallowed the cross slot book hook line and sinker now
 
Location
Cambridge
What you keep saying about "provided enough plants are established there's no difference between drills" is analogous to organising a drag race and saying "provided both cars accelerate at the same rate neither car is the fastest"

Both statements are true, but they totally miss the point about what we (or perhaps I should say "I") are really trying to test.
 
What you keep saying about "provided enough plants are established there's no difference between drills" is analogous to organising a drag race and saying "provided both cars accelerate at the same rate neither car is the fastest"

Both statements are true, but they totally miss the point about what we (or perhaps I should say "I") are really trying to test.

Because all the drills on the market are capable of getting the seeds in the place where germination needs to happen. Sure we can say we prefer the ground following ability of drill x or the mineralising capabilities of drill y but at the end of it all they are all capable of getting the plant counts expected of them
 
Location
Cambridge
Because all the drills on the market are capable of getting the seeds in the place where germination needs to happen. Sure we can say we prefer the ground following ability of drill x or the mineralising capabilities of drill y but at the end of it all they are all capable of getting the plant counts expected of them
So why are you such a big fan of seed firming wheels if they make no difference?
 

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