The Cross slot vs 750a trial

[SilliamWhale]

sorry, don't understand what you're saying?

Well we both know a yield increase cannot be guaranteed. If you make a purchase for something which is essentially going to operate in a varied and uncontrolled environment then I wouldn't be going along the lines of "I need a 12% increase in yield to make this pay" because its too varied and what if one year you miss it? It knocks on the next year and theoretically you'll need to rebudget which I think affects resilience and reliability of budgets.

If you like the cross slot, think it will do a good job on the farm and you will be happy with it and can afford it then I think you should just buy one. It won't go wrong - it will still plant corn.

 

[dontknowanything]

Well we both know a yield increase cannot be guaranteed. If you make a purchase for something which is essentially going to operate in a varied and uncontrolled environment then I wouldn't be going along the lines of "I need a 12% increase in yield to make this pay" because its too varied and what if one year you miss it? It knocks on the next year and theoretically you'll need to rebudget which I think affects resilience and reliability of budgets.

If you like the cross slot, think it will do a good job on the farm and you will be happy with it and can afford it then I think you should just buy one. It won't go wrong - it will still plant corn.

This is what the mooted trials would be for though. If I just thought its worth it anyway, why bother?

 

[SilliamWhale]

This is what the mooted trials would be for though. If I just thought its worth it anyway, why bother?

But a trial won't prove you will get the 12% yield increase needed for 20 years.

Or put it another way - was Clives trial this year enough to convince you to either go broadcasting or buy a 750 and sell the Horsch? If one were to act on the Clive trial then really all Claydon's should be parked in the nettles this year, but they won't be (and obviously shouldn't be). And here is the nub of a problem with trials like this, other variables come into play.

 

[dontknowanything]

But a trial won't prove you will get the 12% yield increase needed for 20 years.

Or put it another way - was Clives trial this year enough to convince you to either go broadcasting or buy a 750 and sell the Horsch? If one were to act on the Clive trial then really all Claydon's should be parked in the nettles this year, but they won't be (and obviously shouldn't be). And here is the nub of a problem with trials like this, other variables come into play.

Yes of course this is true. There will always be variables, but trials results reduce the uncertainty of a decision, they rarely eliminate it.

For example (and I believe this point applies to Clive's trial too) for the last two years we have done trials on how to establish wheat after sugar beet. This year there was no difference at all between ploughing and shallow (2-3") min till. So are we going to do all min-till this year? No, because in 2013 there was a 1.5t/ha difference between the treatments. I believe this year was strange, and very kind for wheat growing conditions. I will do the same trial this year (actually will include some DD as well), and then in 12 months time I will have three years data from our farm, with our machinery. At that point I will make a call, in the knowledge that the following year may well be different - that's life!

[alternatively we may not be growing beet then, but that's a different story]

 

[Andy Howard]

Having done trials before it is very easy to take from it what you already thought or find excuses of why you got that result. The two drill trials I have done here the 750a won both times by a clear margin one year. The simtech came bottom. As dad is not a fan of the 750a he saw reasons why this happened and the other drills did poorly and I saw it as the 750a winning twice and so the best overall drill. Both of us are probably wrong to a certain extent. This discussion between CS and jd would still go on after a trial because everyone will seen something different.

 

[dontknowanything]

Having done trials before it is very easy to take from it what you already thought or find excuses of why you got that result. The two drill trials I have done here the 750a won both times by a clear margin one year. The simtech came bottom. As dad is not a fan of the 750a he saw reasons why this happened and the other drills did poorly and I saw it as the 750a winning twice and so the best overall drill. Both of us are probably wrong to a certain extent. This discussion between CS and jd would still go on after a trial because everyone will seen something different.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I don't think that means trials are a waste of time. I'm sure this debate would rumble on after a trial, but so what? I want to know for myself, I don't care what conclusions others come to.

 

[Andy Howard]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I don't think that means trials are a waste of time. I'm sure this debate would rumble on after a trial, but so what? I want to know for myself, I don't care what conclusions others come to.

Not saying they are a waste of time but mostly they will be inconclusive, I suspect. I would be interested to see a trial but getting meaningful information will be th the difficult thing.

 

[dontknowanything]

Not saying they are a waste of time but mostly they will be inconclusive, I suspect. I would be interested to see a trial but getting meaningful information will be th the difficult thing.

For me personally, if this particular trial was inconclusive then the CS is a no no. 3x the price needs a strong positive result

 

[York]

For me personally, if this particular trial was inconclusive then the CS is a no no. 3x the price needs a strong positive result

I think the only thig which I thi

For me personally, if this particular trial was inconclusive then the CS is a no no. 3x the price needs a strong positive result

I think the most fair comparison is that you get Primewest to come for a day and you have your comparison on your fields under your conditions. It's just a drive of 137 km, so can be done. In our "enthusiastic" early days we would drive 300 km with the tractor & drill in the night, do the drilling and drive home the next day.
The best comes even: As you are the person who pays this you are in full control of the publishing the results and it's 1st hand experience for you.
Now, as GB, ok, might only be now England, has in the near future more CS around than any country on the main land there are also many opportunities to talk and even more to visit the CS owners regularly to hear from them 1st hand.
York-Th.

 

[dontknowanything]

I think the most fair comparison is that you get Primewest to come for a day and you have your comparison on your fields under your conditions.

I would be happy to do this, but have not been able to find out yet whether it is possible.

 

[SilliamWhale]

For me personally, if this particular trial was inconclusive then the CS is a no no. 3x the price needs a strong positive result

Well your NZ data shows that anyway.

I think if you fancy one, can afford it, go for it. You'll have the kudos and you may even get in the Farmers Weekly.

 

[dontknowanything]

Well your NZ data shows that anyway.

I think if you fancy one, can afford it, go for it. You'll have the kudos and you may even get in the Farmers Weekly.

What NZ data? None that I'm aware of.

 

[SilliamWhale]

What NZ data? None that I'm aware of.

The stuff you did when you went out there. The trials from down south on no till drilling

 

[Feldspar]

Trials are useful. It's just that most farmers don't have the time, resources and expertise to be able to do a proper one and interpret the results in a meaningful way, particularly if the results are close and depend on a lot of things.

In cases where the results between one method and another are huge then on farm trials can be useful.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Trials are useful. It's just that most farmers don't have the time, resources and expertise to be able to do a proper one and interpret the results in a meaningful way, particularly if the results are close and depend on a lot of things.

In cases where the results between one method and another are huge then on farm trials can be useful.

Which in no till around most of the world is not massive. Which is why you get farmer in Iowa, Iguazu and some place in Austrailia beginning with I no tilling, but their neighbours swearing blind it cannot work for them. Same as why it doesn't work for my neighbours but it does for me.

 

[dontknowanything]

The stuff you did when you went out there. The trials from down south on no till drilling

Are you talking about the results published in the CS brochure? If you take that document as Gospel then only a gibbering idiot would not buy a CS. But as I found out upon further research, that (sorry, those) data did not tell the whole story.

 

[Fred]

The debate that is raging proves my point , a CS v JD trial would be inconclusive and a waste of time,Will sums it up , if you want one, can afford it, then consider it .

I didn't say a direct drilling on light soils was pointless , just that it wouldn't show a result of any difference so not worth while

if you want to a do trial , do it on some marley old clay over a period of years and see if
1 the drills show a marked difference, in emergence and yield.
2whether the soil improves and negates the bad points of either drill


To add something to the debate , have all the people(in the UK) who claim the CS is the best drill, actually seen one working , i have and some of the claims esp about low disturbance are nonsense. You are pulling an inch wide tine through the ground every 7 inches apart

its ability to place seed, in undulating variable ground , through huge residue mats are unquestionable

the power requirement is large 10hp an opener minimum, but this is caused by its ability to cut through all ground and trash, the openers act like a disc brake to keep the disc clean

 

[dontknowanything]

I didn't say a direct drilling on light soils was pointless , just that it wouldn't show a result of any difference so not worth while

Sorry, this is where you are 100% wrong. That result would make the trial entirely worthwhile. Not for CS, because I wouldn't then consider buying a drill. But it would make my decision easy, and that's the purpose of a trial.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Sorry, this is where you are 100% wrong. That result would make the trial entirely worthwhile. Not for CS, because I wouldn't then consider buying a drill. But it would make my decision easy, and that's the purpose of a trial.

Still won't prove anything unless on your land and you get the repeatable conditions every year. Your better off getting on your hands and knees to compare various drills in various soils to see how good their seed placement is, because that's pretty much what its about

 

[dontknowanything]

Still won't prove anything unless on your land and you get the repeatable conditions every year. Your better off getting on your hands and knees to compare various drills in various soils to see how good their seed placement is, because that's pretty much what its about

Not sure how many times I have to say that I would like to do this trial on our farm?!