- Location
- Fife
*Contract shepherd enter stage left*
All labour and equipment provided. Any arable farmers in Glos/Wilts wanting to raise OM or control black grass please PM to discuss further.
Last edited:
The Disappearance of the All Round Farmer
- Thread starter DrWazzock
- Start date
*Contract shepherd enter stage left*
All labour and equipment provided. Any arable farmers in Glos/Wilts wanting to raise OM or control black grass please PM to discuss further.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
ollie989898
Member
The reason for specialism is that with dairy at least, if you are good at it, you can make a LOT of money- certainly making arable farming look positively daft on a per ha basis. However, if you are not that good at it, you can lose a LOT of money.
In the arable game, there is no end of people trying to help you and no end of people who like driving big toys. In the world of dairy, the vet is there but your agronomist ain't gonna come and assist with a difficult calving at midnight and you wont get students chasing after you to drive your scraper tractor 7 days a week. A mere mention of the word 'Lexion' and students drool at the mouth.
The same is true to a lesser degree with poultry and pigs. A decent setup, run very well, with attention to detail, and there is serious money to be made or lost, but it is not a game for fools because there is no margin for error and there are no legions of people knocking on your door to help you, it's a specialist game in a highly integrated and closed shop industry.
Ask yourself how many blokes do you see seriously into the chicken or pig sectors for the craic of it? None, the investment and expertise required are huge hurdles. Look at the seriousness they put into disease control and husbandry. Now compare that with the dairy or beef world, how many people here run cattle but carry no vaccination or disease monitoring program? That would be unheard of in the pig and poultry world, they cant afford the losses if the wheels fall off.
Now look at the beef and arable sectors. Examine all the units in your vicinity, how many of them in your opinion are just doing it for the craic?
I've heard it more than a dozen times across the grapevine. Gonna give up dairy, go into beef, easier life... Gonna sell the cows, go into arable, easier life... You don't think those markets are oversupplied already then? The assumption seems to be that you can give up trying to make a margin in dairy farming, (which I would argue is a far riper cherry if you can reach and pick it), and then enter lower margin sectors which is a simple and easy dollar. I'm not the brightest by any means but I am not daft enough to believe that I would elect to invest money and time into entering those sectors in the belief that they offer a stress free shilling.
You have to play to your strengths and concentrate on what earns the money. I think a lot of stuff that goes on is perhaps a useful or enjoyable diversion from the main meat and bones of the business.
In the arable game, there is no end of people trying to help you and no end of people who like driving big toys. In the world of dairy, the vet is there but your agronomist ain't gonna come and assist with a difficult calving at midnight and you wont get students chasing after you to drive your scraper tractor 7 days a week. A mere mention of the word 'Lexion' and students drool at the mouth.
The same is true to a lesser degree with poultry and pigs. A decent setup, run very well, with attention to detail, and there is serious money to be made or lost, but it is not a game for fools because there is no margin for error and there are no legions of people knocking on your door to help you, it's a specialist game in a highly integrated and closed shop industry.
Ask yourself how many blokes do you see seriously into the chicken or pig sectors for the craic of it? None, the investment and expertise required are huge hurdles. Look at the seriousness they put into disease control and husbandry. Now compare that with the dairy or beef world, how many people here run cattle but carry no vaccination or disease monitoring program? That would be unheard of in the pig and poultry world, they cant afford the losses if the wheels fall off.
Now look at the beef and arable sectors. Examine all the units in your vicinity, how many of them in your opinion are just doing it for the craic?
I've heard it more than a dozen times across the grapevine. Gonna give up dairy, go into beef, easier life... Gonna sell the cows, go into arable, easier life... You don't think those markets are oversupplied already then? The assumption seems to be that you can give up trying to make a margin in dairy farming, (which I would argue is a far riper cherry if you can reach and pick it), and then enter lower margin sectors which is a simple and easy dollar. I'm not the brightest by any means but I am not daft enough to believe that I would elect to invest money and time into entering those sectors in the belief that they offer a stress free shilling.
You have to play to your strengths and concentrate on what earns the money. I think a lot of stuff that goes on is perhaps a useful or enjoyable diversion from the main meat and bones of the business.
- Location
- Fife
https://www.talkinggrass.co.uk/2016/09/20/doubling-output-buying-land-power-grass/
With the right attitude and attention to detail it appears that there is money to be made in beef and sheep as well.
ollie989898
Member
Granulated lime... 6 hectares? WTF. I didn't need a Nuffield scholarship to tell you you can improve grass!
Dead Rabbits
Member
- Location
- 'Merica
I have to ask, why is managed grazing of some form still a new idea to so many people? This is 2017. I kind of always had it in my mind that the U.K. was ahead of us in this area.
ollie989898
Member
I have no clue.
A good portion of people I dealt with have been doing intensive grazing for years. It literally is the cheapest form of forage going.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Rotational grazing - in Scotland?
Our ever-reliable Scottish contact tells us that that doesn't work, though!
- Location
- Fife
Granulated lime... 6 hectares? WTF. I didn't need a Nuffield scholarship to tell you you can improve grass!
No, indeed you don't need that. I was pointing out the trial. This was the first one, with 66 animals grazed on 6ha which have liveweight gains in excess of 1000kg/ha.
Episode 2 of Pasture Pod details a 2nd trial of 6ha. In this trial 86 animals were grazed on 6ha for 280 days. This was audited by an independent body. Apparently, after all costs (variable and fixed, inc opportunity cost of owned land) this gave a net profit of over £3000 per ha.
My point is that with the right management and attention to detail grazed beef, and to a lesser extent sheep, can compete with dairy on a profit per limiting factor basis.
My 2nd point is that not all students are excited to the point of incontinence by tractors and twin beacons. There are plenty who would rather milk a cow or ride a quad with a couple of collies. There are even some who enjoy shearing. It's just a matter of finding the right personnel for one's own operation.
- Location
- Fife
Rotational grazing - in Scotland?
Our ever-reliable Scottish contact tells us that that doesn't work, though!
He claims he doesn't have enough grass to practice rotational grazing... I guess the irony is lost in translation.
What was the phrase you used? "Management can replace/reduce money inputs"?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I talk that much tosh that I cannot remember
But it sounds like something I'd say.
Nice to see those weight gains though, simply from intensive pasture grazing, that's in line with what I'm getting here for spring DLWG.
I've been looking at Lofa/Perun for a while, for cool weather performance.
Next year, Rodders.
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
why is it higher protein barley?
capfits
Member
Come now @Bossfarmer, surely you may have potential loads rejected cause the Nitrogen was to high?
Or is it always in spec on your place?
Of course the incoming grain could be to high in Nitrogen (for a maltster, unlikely this year)skinned or even fail germination.
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
no i have them rejected because the Nitrogens too low so my rejected stuff will be low in protein? whats the difference in protein content of barley at 1.5N and barley at 1.9N just out of interest?
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
this is very impressive and actually hard to believe, what age/breed of cattle were turned onto this pasture?
beltbreaker
Member
- Location
- Ross-shire
@Bossfarmer http://www.ukmalt.com/barley-requirements
Read the bit about Nitrogen in fact read the whole thing!
As a Malting Barley grower you should at least know how these guys deal with your product. Knowledge is power so open your mind and learn.
Like I say arable farming relies on other people's knowledge
Cheers BB
Read the bit about Nitrogen in fact read the whole thing!
As a Malting Barley grower you should at least know how these guys deal with your product. Knowledge is power so open your mind and learn.
Like I say arable farming relies on other people's knowledge
Cheers BB
kfpben
Member
- Location
- Mid Hampshire
I can do most things a bit; done plenty of harvests, milked for two years plus a bit of relief work after, done plenty of lambings and a bit of beef work. This is fine but I am confident at lambing and the early stages, less so at fattening; know broadly how to run an arable harvest but never done any drilling, spraying or ploughing; dairy I can do the herdsman bit but know only the absolute basics about rations and breeding.
Mechanics are not really my thing at all.
I’m not sure if a wide, shallower knowledge is better than a deep specific one though.
I’ve heard it said farming is not ‘what you know but knowing who to call’. Perhaps this is the way forward? 200 years ago doctors did everything including surgery, now there are specialists. Farming is going the same way.
Mechanics are not really my thing at all.
I’m not sure if a wide, shallower knowledge is better than a deep specific one though.
I’ve heard it said farming is not ‘what you know but knowing who to call’. Perhaps this is the way forward? 200 years ago doctors did everything including surgery, now there are specialists. Farming is going the same way.
Because the starch content is lower - less sugar - less malt yield they have to buy handle more to get the same yield as a consequence the ME is lower to , the maltster dont give more money or reject barley for fun
Im suprised BF doesnt know this about his barley being a profesional farmer running at max efficiency as he says. Be a bit like me not knowing why my lambs graded as r2 and not u3l
What is perun ?I talk that much tosh that I cannot remember
But it sounds like something I'd say.
Nice to see those weight gains though, simply from intensive pasture grazing, that's in line with what I'm getting here for spring DLWG.
I've been looking at Lofa/Perun for a while, for cool weather performance.
Next year, Rodders.