The future of arable cropping

[teslacoils]

Also, easier to give folk drugs than tell them their a fat barsteward / poor behaved child / just a cold take a disprin and go to bed.

But let's be fair - we're in a system where we know the rules and can manipulate them for more money.

 

[farmerm]

I doubt it. It’s all about intellectual property law and it’s enforcement in the uk. All the banned chemicals are post patent so no interest in defending them.
Where is your evidence for all this organic investment ?

Why can our levy boards not put some money into defending post patent chemicals?? There will always be manufactures willing to produce generics if there is a market for them. I believe some niche crop producers have been able to self fund testing to allow them to use critical plant protection products, HGCA, PGRO and other such bodies could actually do something that would give levy payers some real value for money!

 

[ajd132]

Why can our levy boards not put some money into defending post patent chemicals?? There will always be manufactures willing to produce generics if there is a market for them. I believe some niche crop producers have been able to self fund testing to allow them to use critical plant protection products, HGCA, PGRO and other such bodies could actually do something that would give levy payers some real value for money!

Chemical farming is over

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Chemical farming is over

You may not have seen this

How Embracing Soil Biology Leads to Better No-Till Profitability

Ray Archuleta has more hope for the soils affected by the 1985 Chernobyl nuclear power-plant explosion than he does for most agricultural fields in the U.S.

www.no-tillfarmer.com

No real silver bullets until mindsets can change, which is unlikely unless change is begun at groundlevel.
There's a lot of delusion at play, eg the pesticides are less detrimental to nature than the tillage system, both of which are extremely limiting in terms of both health and solar capture

 

[ajd132]

You may not have seen this

How Embracing Soil Biology Leads to Better No-Till Profitability

Ray Archuleta has more hope for the soils affected by the 1985 Chernobyl nuclear power-plant explosion than he does for most agricultural fields in the U.S.

www.no-tillfarmer.com

No real silver bullets until mindsets can change, which is unlikely unless change is begun at groundlevel.
There's a lot of delusion at play, eg the pesticides are less detrimental to nature than the tillage system, both of which are extremely limiting in terms of both health and solar capture

I know pesticides have a bad effect on soil biology etc. But before that the more obvious reason to wean ourselves off them is because they are getting resistant, banned or taken off market with very few new ones coming on. Those who can’t see past heavily pesticide reliant farming in the future are going to go bust because of their lack of flexibility.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I know pesticides have a bad effect on soil biology etc. But before that the more obvious reason to wean ourselves off them is because they are getting resistant, banned or taken off market with very few new ones coming on. Those who can’t see past heavily pesticide reliant farming in the future are going to go bust because of their lack of flexibility.

There will be new ones, and new tech, how else to control the producer than to create a scarcity mentality and then fill it?
Marketing 101.
But this system does have a ceiling, eg the energy return on investment simply isn't good enough, because that system is so incomplete, hence the need of 10j of fossil energy per j of food energy on the plate.
Even then the food is largely incomplete as a food, hence why we need to eat so much - roughly 3x that of early homo sapiens and double that of his hungry cousin (who became extinct as a direct result)

All this points to is guaranteed societal collapse, the question is: when does agriculture take note of these signs?

 

[ajd132]

There will be new ones, and new tech, how else to control the producer than to create a scarcity mentality and then fill it?
Marketing 101.
But this system does have a ceiling, eg the energy return on investment simply isn't good enough, because that system is so incomplete, hence the need of 10j of fossil energy per j of food energy on the plate.
Even then the food is largely incomplete as a food, hence why we need to eat so much - roughly 3x that of early homo sapiens and double that of his hungry cousin (who became extinct as a direct result)

All this points to is guaranteed societal collapse, the question is: when does agriculture take note of these signs?

I find farming twitter quite interesting, especially when it comes to things like GM. Many U.K. farmers think getting gm would be amazing for their businesses. They seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that they are the ones being farmed by large companies for profit. ‘Feed the world’ BS

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I find farming twitter quite interesting, especially when it comes to things like GM. Many U.K. farmers think getting gm would be amazing for their businesses. They seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that they are the ones being farmed by large companies for profit. ‘Feed the world’ BS

Meanwhile the farmers struggle to feed their own families without subsidies, I know, the irony is not lost on me.

But apparently, "we live in a golden age" where obesity and disease epidemics have NOTHING to do with the output of farms

You couldn't write this sh!t

 

[ajd132]

Meanwhile the farmers struggle to feed their own families without subsidies, I know, the irony is not lost on me.

But apparently, "we live in a golden age" where obesity and disease epidemics have NOTHING to do with the output of farms

You couldn't write this sh!t

This is quite literally what I saw at a big chemical companies conference a few months ago from the American farmers. It was quite mad. The argentinians were much more pragmatic to their approach and used stuff sparingly when needed. I cannot for the life of me understand why farmers want another easy answer given to them for money, nature always fights back it’s so damn obvious and a ridiculous treadmill.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is quite literally what I saw at a big chemical companies conference a few months ago from the American farmers. It was quite mad. The argentinians were much more pragmatic to their approach and used stuff sparingly when needed. I cannot for the life of me understand why farmers want another easy answer given to them for money, nature always fights back it’s so damn obvious and a ridiculous treadmill.

The soil and plant are one - harm the plant, harm the soil.

This is NOT new thinking - yet producers the world over starve and constipate their soils with unneeded inputs, boosting yield, eroding profits

They will not solve their problems with the same thinking that created the problems, I think Einstein said this, or similar.
The sheer volume of fungicides alone pumped onto cereal crops scares me sufficiently I attempt to steer well clear of any products "containing gluten", not that gluten was ever the problem.... but it's an easy way to sort the real food from the dross.

I blamed a severe spinal/head injury on my lack of mental clarity and 'clock speed' for a decade; cutting out this toxic crap from my diet was the answer to turning the page on depression, social anxiety and a lot of other issues I hadn't noticed until they left my system and I recovered somewhat - this is partly why I take issue with these production methods, other than the sheer logic of doing something different, if you don't like bouncing off the overdraft all the time

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

Goulson is anti all pesticides & does not see the bigger picture. He doesn't get the connection between the loss of neonic seed dressings and the vast reduction in oilseed rape grown which is a key pollen source for bees.

Do you have any figures (or anecdotal evidence) on the percentage reduction from 17 to 18 to 19 drillings?

 

[Brisel]

Do you have any figures (or anecdotal evidence) on the percentage reduction from 17 to 18 to 19 drillings?

Acres harvested would be more relevant but I'll see what I can find.

https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishing.service.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fuploads%2Fsystem%2Fuploads%2Fattachment_data%2Ffile%2F853540%2Fstructure-june-ukcerealoilseed-19dec19.xls&usg=AOvVaw09BfFAQadI7TjBAxIV33J-

Also, try https://data.gov.uk/dataset/c500435.../14594f48-af59-422a-8230-5dc33405d286/preview though this only goes up to 2014, before the neonic ban.

More up to date with less history is https://assets.publishing.service.g...e/837834/structure-jun2019prov-UK-10oct19.pdf

 

[Farma Parma]

2015 biggeest ever yields on farm here & wasnt me or dads doing, weather did it all. end of.
2019 best ever WB yields tho.
so weird.
The world wants cheap food, us lot in the UK are on a slippery slope too provide this service & thats a fact

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

Acres harvested would be more relevant but I'll see what I can find.

Thanks, I'm pondering a differentiation between what is a planned reduction in acreage and what is a reduction through failure of emerged crop.

 

[Brisel]

Thanks, I'm pondering a differentiation between what is a planned reduction in acreage and what is a reduction through failure of emerged crop.

That was my thought too. No doubt Goulson et al will think of other reasons we'd reduce the area of our most profitable break crop by a country mile (apart from AD feedstock, root crops, vegetables and planned grass rotations).

The DEFRA data I've linked is from the June census, so you'd think it relates to area harvested though not acres sown but written off and sown with something else.