The future of tenant hill farming

Magik22

Member
Apologies if this has previously been covered in another thread.

I’d be very interested to hear how other tenant hill/upland farmers are planning to tackle the next few years. I may be being pessimistic but, I keep seeing red flags where agriculture in the hills is concerned, from environmental pressure to soaring input prices.

Watching the neighbours hasn’t really answered my questions, some continue to plough investments into production, some have almost completely backed off.

I, like most of us, am lucky enough to be able to do what I love doing for a living. But unfortunately that doesn’t pay this bills and looking at the margins without support payments isn’t particularly pretty. Which is a dilemma! Continue doing what I would love to do or put it on the back burner and ride the environmental train as far as it goes and diversify even further.
 

Matt14

Member
Livestock Farmer
Your not alone. Granted I'm a farm owner in the hills with a morage but with no payments the figures just don't add up. I read most of the gov info about farming after bps but none of it looks any good. I'm not even sure planting tree and having bird habitats is any better. Have found the walling grants handy.
I'm really waiting to see what happens 🤔
 

delilah

Member
It remains a mystery to me why there are so few LFA farmers on here kicking up a stink about ELMS. You deliver the greatest public good, you are in the greatest need of public money, yet all we read is lowland farmers bellyaching about their sub going. Maybe you are all getting your message across in other ways, in which case then great, but it wouldn't hurt for you to explain on here to @Janet Hughes Defra why you should be getting most of the SFI.
 

Matt14

Member
Livestock Farmer
It remains a mystery to me why there are so few LFA farmers on here kicking up a stink about ELMS. You deliver the greatest public good, you are in the greatest need of public money, yet all we read is lowland farmers bellyaching about their sub going. Maybe you are all getting your message across in other ways, in which case then great, but it wouldn't hurt for you to explain on here to @Janet Hughes Defra why you should be getting most of the SFI.
Your right in what you say but how do you complain about elms when the government don't even know what it is.
 

delilah

Member
Your right in what you say but how do you complain about elms when the government don't even know what it is.

Tell these people. Tell them why you deliver the greatest public good. Tell them that without proper support via the SFI you are history. Tell them what the implications are of that.
 

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egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Tell these people. Tell them why you deliver the greatest public good. Tell them that without proper support via the SFI you are history. Tell them what the implications are of that.
'you are history' ???

I don't think you get it D

Without the subs, I'll stop spending them with my suppliers.
Instead, i'll cut the cows drastically, and run the hill ewes as they were in decades past.
I'll do more 'off farm' work, and survive.

It won't be MY problem.
Mole Valley, my landlord, machinery dealers etc, and the entire chain that buy/fatten/haul/kill my cattle will presumably notice.

The foolish assumption that's always made is that because we've lived fat off subs, we wouldn't manage without them.
I suspect it's an erroneous assumption.
 
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glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Your not alone. Granted I'm a farm owner in the hills with a morage but with no payments the figures just don't add up. I read most of the gov info about farming after bps but none of it looks any good. I'm not even sure planting tree and having bird habitats is any better. Have found the walling grants handy.
I'm really waiting to see what happens 🤔
What about the big prices for lambs?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
So what's better in the long run.. A bought smallholding with an off farm income, or a tenant hill farm with no off farm income??

I guess that depends on how big the hill farm was and how low the rent was?

Old AHA tenants will be able to screw their rents down hard, as they are based on earning capacity, but any reductions will only be several years behind the decline in income.
FBT rents are based on market values, so will only reduce after demand declines, which will be as tenants have walked away. Again, it will be several years behind the drop in incomes, eroding tenant’s net worth in the mean time.
 

Weasel

Member
Location
in the hills
I guess that depends on how big the hill farm was and how low the rent was?

Old AHA tenants will be able to screw their rents down hard, as they are based on earning capacity, but any reductions will only be several years behind the decline in income.
FBT rents are based on market values, so will only reduce after demand declines, which will be as tenants have walked away. Again, it will be several years behind the drop in incomes, eroding tenant’s net worth in the mean time.

1500 acres , 10 year lease
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
'you are history' ???

I don't think you get it D

Without the subs, I'll stop spending them with my suppliers.
Instead, i'll cut the cows drastically, and run the hill ewes as they were in decades past.
I'll do more 'off farm' work, and survive.

It won't be MY problem.
Mole Valley, my landlord, machinery dealers etc, and the entire chain that buy/fatten/haul/kill my cattle will presumably notice.

The foolish assumption that's always made is that because we've lived fat off subs, we wouldn't manage without them.
I suspect it's an erroneous assumption.

I agree. The first thing to suffer will be the suppliers and support industries, as spending dries up.

Given that scenario, what jobs will be available for all these farmers that are going to get off farm work, especially in remote rural communities?
 
i can never figure out why the big boys involved in selling to farmers are not up in arms about loosing single farm payment , if it were me id be lobbying and shouting from the rooftops no money to farmers no money tp suppliers ... simples ... ahh well why done the farmers do it.... well its because we a to bust working to get the time
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,292
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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