The Governments assault on livestock farming.

[Henarar]

There was a programme on the televisuals a couple of weeks ago, entitled Water.

So much demand that countries are now setting up shop in other countries to harvest it. The Saudis have drained their own aquifers to grow wheat etc. so are now busy draining underground supplies in the US to grow alfalfa and grain. The general opinion is that there's less than 20 years' supply left.

Major rivers have been dammed for hydro power and diverted for irrigation and one inland sea drained completely. Rusty fishing boats now lie on sun baked sand.

Aral Sea's Eastern Basin Is Dry for First Time in 600 Years

Once the world's fourth largest lake, the vast Asian lake was drained for irrigation.

www.nationalgeographic.com

But what I found most interesting was the assertion that this displacement of large tracts of water, which is heavy, has altered the earth's axis. It's tilted, apparently.

Surely that would also affect climate? Man made for sure, but nothing to do with livestock emmissions.

(Sorry, no links for the programme)

Yes I watched that, very interesting, many rivers now don't make it to the sea, land collapsing where they have drained underground water.
what gets me is in this country all we get is "keep the water in the hills" and such like, loads of things to stop flooding, we seem to have to much water yet they want to export production to places that are running out.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Yes I watched that, very interesting, many rivers now don't make it to the sea, land collapsing where they have drained underground water.
what gets me is in this country all we get is "keep the water in the hills" and such like, loads of things to stop flooding, we seem to have to much water yet they want to export production to places that are running out.

Not over here we don't. Our water company are predicting a shortfall of ,iirc, something like 50 MILLION litres of water a DAY by 2030 if current trends continue. Thames Water, next door, predict a shortfall of 132 MILLION a day!

 

[DaveGrohl]

I also glanced at an article saying the Indians in the Amazon look after a lot of fruiting trees, so maybe their agriculture was based more on perennials rather than our annual system. I think we went down the wrong route when we concentrated our agriculture and food on eating grains, as we can see now with the obesity and diabetes problems.

Much as I hate to say it, maybe the answer is a paradigm shift to silvoculture system.

Silvoculture as a method of sustainable livestock production

Pastures that have shrubs and trees are more sustainable, according to new study

www.cabi.org

But whatever system, we must have large ruminants in the mix, it is only because so many people now are so divorced from where their food comes from (and politicians generally scientifically illiterate too - Maggie being the exception - and look how she is hated by some still), I can only see it is all going to end in tears, or wars, mass migration, environmental degradation, desertification, mass extinctions etc.

Mass migration is the absolute endgame of all this "debate" and "activity" around "climate change". Scientists and politicians can blather on as much as they like, Planet Earth doesn't give a sh!t. Too much of what they're currently obsessing over will prove to be completely wrong in the fullness of time, but we'll all be long dead by the time they realise. We're gonna be in the Canute phase for quite a while yet it seems.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

But what I found most interesting was the assertion that this displacement of large tracts of water, which is heavy, has altered the earth's axis. It's tilted, apparently.

Surely that would also affect climate? Man made for sure, but nothing to do with livestock emmissions.

Try this;-

The Day the Earth Caught Fire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

One of my favourite fil.ms

 

[C.J]

In a 2012 paper, Miller et al. link the Little Ice Age to an "unusual 50-year-long episode with four large sulfur-rich explosive eruptions, each with global sulfate loading >60 Tg" and notes that "large changes in solar irradiance are not required."[7]

Throughout the Little Ice Age, the world experienced heightened volcanic activity.[118] When a volcano erupts, its ash reaches high into the atmosphere and can spread to cover the whole earth. The ash cloud blocks out some of the incoming solar radiation, which leads to worldwide cooling for up to two years after an eruption. Also emitted by eruptions is sulfur in the form of sulfur dioxide. When sulfur dioxide reaches the stratosphere, the gas turns into sulfuric acid particles, which reflect the sun's rays. That further reduces the amount of radiation reaching the Earth's surface.

A recent study found that an especially massive tropical volcanic eruption in 1257, possibly of the now-extinct Mount Samalas near Mount Rinjani, both in Lombok, Indonesia, followed by three smaller eruptions in 1268, 1275, and 1284, did not allow the climate to recover. That may have caused the initial cooling, and the 1452–1453 eruption of Kuwae in Vanuatu triggered a second pulse of cooling.[7] The cold summers can be maintained by sea-ice/ocean feedbacks long after volcanic aerosols are removed.

Other volcanoes that erupted during the era and may have contributed to the cooling include Billy Mitchell (c. 1580), Huaynaputina (1600), Mount Parker (1641), Long Island (Papua New Guinea) (ca. 1660), and Laki (1783).[24] The 1815 eruption of Tambora, also in Indonesia, blanketed the atmosphere with ash, and the following year came to be known as the Year Without a Summer,[119] when frost and snow were reported in June and July in both New England and Northern Europe.

Volcanic activity is always higher during Grand Solar Minimums.

La Palma has experienced a lot of seismic activity this week - could this be the big one that blows the island apart and sends a tsunami across the Atlantic ?

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Volcanic activity is always higher during Grand Solar Minimums.

La Palma has experienced a lot of seismic activity this week - could this be the big one that blows the island apart and sends a tsunami across the Atlantic ?

I remember watching a TV programme about that, saying that when the islands break apart, a tsunami will destroy NY and and the Eastern Seaboard as well as the low bits on the West of the UK, and that in geological time frames, we are due that to happen imminently, how ever imminently in geological terms can be a very long time in our time frame.

 

[Barleycorn]

Our farm has arable crops, soft fruit and keeps cattle and sheep.

Hand on heart the livestock are best for the environment and wildlife. Less sprays on the grassland, more insects, more birds and of course producing muck for the cropped land.
Anyone who genuinely argues that continuous arable is somehow better for the environment than farming with livestock is either deeply misguided or has a sinister agenda.

Charlie Flindt, who can't be far from you, would disagree.

 

[manhill]

I'm fresh out of light relief, my 3rd best wellies have a split, and I had to knot polywire at about 5500V

used to be a fairground game to see how much voltage you can take, get on with you wimp!
Gosh, people moan about anything these days!

 

[Charlie Flindt]

Charlie Flindt, who can't be far from you, would disagree.

Why would I?

 

[egbert]

I also glanced at an article saying the Indians in the Amazon look after a lot of fruiting trees, so maybe their agriculture was based more on perennials rather than our annual system. I think we went down the wrong route when we concentrated our agriculture and food on eating grains, as we can see now with the obesity and diabetes problems.

Much as I hate to say it, maybe the answer is a paradigm shift to silvoculture system.

Silvoculture as a method of sustainable livestock production

Pastures that have shrubs and trees are more sustainable, according to new study

www.cabi.org

But whatever system, we must have large ruminants in the mix, it is only because so many people now are so divorced from where their food comes from (and politicians generally scientifically illiterate too - Maggie being the exception - and look how she is hated by some still), I can only see it is all going to end in tears, or wars, mass migration, environmental degradation, desertification, mass extinctions etc.

We already had silvoculture systems, in orchards.
But the downward drive on prices and increased tech specialisation forced modern orchard systems on those that can, and completely shut out those that can't.

That's not gonna change on its own.

i'm always surprised some clever geek hasn't manipulated something into a combinable perennial starch food plant.
The world is theirs!
(well, it would be, but that it'd be nicked the minute it was working)

 

[Old Tup]

to be honest I was a bit miffed by her attitude, that's why I said it!

So was the reason for the visit to try and obtain a place at Cambridge?

 

[Ffermer Bach]

So was the reason for the visit to try and obtain a place at Cambridge?

yes, but son had sort of decided that Cambridge was too far away from West Wales, the funniest thing happened to us there too, we had a look at the vet school and met a student from Wales, he had the most cut glass home counties accent and told us he was really Welsh, we both commented to each other after that he was as un Welsh as it was possible to be!

 

[Old Tup]

yes, but son had sort of decided that Cambridge was too far away from West Wales, the funniest thing happened to us there too, we had a look at the vet school and met a student from Wales, he had the most cut glass home counties accent and told us he was really Welsh, we both commented to each other after that he was as un Welsh as it was possible to be!

Distance a small price to pay for what was on offer….surely

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Distance a small price to pay for what was on offer….surely

That is if he had been offered a place there! Got a good MSc from another institution.

 

[neilo]

Yeah, i'll give you one. Tesco's freezers burn more electricity than does all of UK agriculture.
And anyone who wants to come out with any guff that Tesco are our biggest customer so we should be nice to them, no, Tesco aren't our customer, the public are our customer, Tesco are just the parasite in the middle.

I realise Tesco are the big bogey man that keeps you awake at night, but your oft repeated claim about their fridges isn’t borne out by the (dubious) source you quoted, at all.

That ‘article’, published on a site selling green products, claims that all uk supermarkets and retailers (that’ll include yourlocaluse as much electricity to power their fridges as 800,000 homes, and call on them to put doors on them (a sensible enough aim). Indeed, the only mention of your favourite store is when it states that Tesco have made a commitment to reduce their HFC use.

Just because you repeat the claim often enough, it doesn’t make it any less false.

Article site as the reference above, is linked below:

Supermarket fridges consume enough electricity to power 800,000 homes.

UK supermarkets can help save the planet by covering energy-wasting open fridges, campaigners say.

www.savemoneycutcarbon.com

There is little doubt that Tesco, as with most big companies in all sectors, are ruthless operators, who would stab you in the back to make a penny, but what you’ve claimed is just a falsehood.

 

[Old Tup]

That is if he had been offered a place there! Got a good MSc from another institution.

Ahhhh ……was going to say people travel half way round the world to attend…

 

[delilah]

I realise Tesco are the big bogey man that keeps you awake at night, but your oft repeated claim about their fridges isn’t borne out by the (dubious) source you quoted, at all.

That ‘article’, published on a site selling green products, claims that all uk supermarkets and retailers (that’ll include yourlocaluse as much electricity to power their fridges as 800,000 homes, and call on them to put doors on them (a sensible enough aim). Indeed, the only mention of your favourite store is when it states that Tesco have made a commitment to reduce their HFC use.

Just because you repeat the claim often enough, it doesn’t make it any less false.

Article site as the reference above, is linked below:

Supermarket fridges consume enough electricity to power 800,000 homes.

UK supermarkets can help save the planet by covering energy-wasting open fridges, campaigners say.

www.savemoneycutcarbon.com

There is little doubt that Tesco, as with most big companies in all sectors, are ruthless operators, who would stab you in the back to make a penny, but what you’ve claimed is just a falsehood.

UK ag accounts for 0.6% of total UK energy use.
That is from one of the three sources that I have quoted. A DTI statistic.
We are agreed that that is a reliable statistic ? Yes ?

In that case, if you wish to challenge my statement that 'Tesco freezers burn more electricity than does all of UK ag', you need to come up with a figure as to what % of that 0.6% is electricity, as opposed to gas, diesel and other energy sources. .
Yes ? Look forward to seeing your figures.

In the meantime, my statement stands, and I have achieved my objective of putting it into folks minds. It's called campaigning.
There is nothing wrong our side of the farm gate. If any farmers want to beat themselves up trying to prove otherwise, be my guest.

 

[neilo]

UK ag accounts for 0.6% of total UK energy use.
That is from one of the three sources that I have quoted. A DTI statistic.
We are agreed that that is a reliable statistic ? Yes ?

In that case, if you wish to challenge my statement that 'Tesco freezers burn more electricity than does all of UK ag', you need to come up with a figure as to what % of that 0.6% is electricity, as opposed to gas, diesel and other energy sources. .
Yes ? Look forward to seeing your figures.

In the meantime, my statement stands, and I have achieved my objective of putting it into folks minds. It's called campaigning.
There is nothing wrong our side of the farm gate. If any farmers want to beat themselves up trying to prove otherwise, be my guest.

I don’t ‘need to come up with’ any figures. You libellously stated that Tesco fridges burn as much electricity as 800,000 homes and, when queried, posted up a link that says nothing of the sort.

I agree that open fridges are ridiculously wasteful, but Tesco aren’t the only ones responsible. IME there are plenty of such cabinets to be found in smaller retailers and farm shops too. They should all be covered, not just those in your favourite ‘love to hate’ shop.

 

[delilah]

You libellously stated that Tesco fridges burn as much electricity as 800,000 homes

Er, no I didn't. I stated that 'Tesco fridges burn more electricity than does all of UK ag.'
And provided 3 sources from which I made that calculation.
Do show me where I have stated that 'Tesco fridges burn as much electricity as 800,000 homes'.

Libel. lol. What is this, the TFF version of McLibel ? If so, bring it on.

 

[Ted M]

But.....

The vast majority of the general public still want real meat and real dairy products.

We haven't lost yet.

yet.

Only just happened upon this thread but I think you're right here.
Occasionally things pop up on my social media accounts from certain vegan /animal rights campaigners. That annoying pr*ck Joey Carbstrong being one.
If I'm feeling brave I occasionally read the comments. 9 out of 10 are usually telling him to shove his diet and opinions where the sun doesn't shine and they can't all be farmers.