Storeman
Member
- Location
- South East Englandshire
Climate change........ It always has and it always will.
The great global warming scam, worth a listen I think.
- Thread starter banjo
- Start date
Campani
Member
I find this attitude strange. Its like saying: People have always died and they always will, so why spend money on hospitals.
Storeman
Member
- Location
- South East Englandshire
Why is a basic scientific fact strange? The climate has always been in a state of constant change. There have been several ice ages in the past. We are still coming out of the last ice age, hence things getting warmer. The climate will, at some point, start to cool and there will be another ice age.
Your analogy is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
Campani
Member
Because the vast majority of scientific reporting indicates that the climate has always changed, but it is currently changing faster because of fossil fuels being burnt. We should therefore try to stop burning as many fossil fuels, so the speed at which the climate is changing is slower, and we can therefore more easily adapt to the change.
You are saying the "climate has always been in a state of constant change" and implying that we therefore shouldn't do anything to reduce the amount of change.
I think this is similar to saying "people have always died so therefore we shouldn't do anything to reduce the amount of deaths"
why is it such a different statement?
- Location
- S E Glos
No-one debates that climate change exists, what is up for debate is whether man has any influence over the natural cycles that bring it about.
linga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion
But maybe man has an influence on un -natural cycles that cause it.
We know that without CO2 in the atmosphere the Earth would be about 33 degrees colder so its clear CO2 affects temperature
We know that man has burnt vast quantities of fossil fuel in a very short time from sources that have taken hundreds of thousands of years to form.
We know that burning fossil fuels produces CO2
We know that atmospheric CO2 levels are rising
Is it not reasonable to suggest that man might have an affect on climate?
banjo
Member
- Location
- Back of beyond
And here's one of @banjo data sources for those who keep asking him for it
https://www.facebook.com/oppenheimerranch
https://www.facebook.com/oppenheimerranch
That's not the globle average just, the average of a number of covered weather stations, sure that graph shows little change but it seems from the discription that these are in sheltered location that don't get ocean air for some reason, is there a reason for this other than the likely, that they show the most favourable data for your case.
I am open to the reasoning for their selection being something else but it's best if you tell us.... why they used those locations for the data as it's your post.
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
In the absence of your photos (or anybody else’s) showing a foot of snow, I have decided to respond without them. How long did it last? A week, three days? You have not posted factual evidence that the temperatures are falling, sea levels dropping or more snow – on a global basis, which is what all the fuss is about. Global. What you do post are incomplete or irrelevant graphs and charts, and more about that later.
As far as (theoretically) walking from Greenland to Russia is concerned, I have already asked, but as usual you fail to respond merely repeating something you have already posted, so I too will repeat, “When was it not possible to walk from Greenland to Russia in February?”
If, as you believe, the Earth’s temperature does not move more than a degree either way, then we have already passed that point compared to the earlier part of the 20th Century and are due a correction downwards. This is exactly what you are predicting, but a one degree fall would put us back into the 1930s. And we all know what you think about temperatures in the 1930s.
Back on your sunspot theory again. I have already pointed out examples of the highest levels of sunspots ever recorded coincided with some of the most severe winters, including 1947. Why do you think a lack of sunspots would create similar conditions? Your theory might be more believable if you claimed that many sunspots correspond with harsh winters. The 2017/18 northern hemisphere winter was very mild compared with some in my lifetime.
I have already addressed the issue of your misconception that I am not interested in your viewpoint. Your last sentence is absolute balderdash. How can acceptance of two centuries of scientific knowledge on the effects of changing atmospheric composition be considered “religious extremism like”? Not accepting it and attempting to ridicule those who do accept it, especially with no reasonable arguments against works which have stood the test of time, could though be classified as “religious extremism like”.
A small portion of a graph of the lower atmosphere – not Earth’s temperatures. @linga has already pointed this out to you.
Indeed they do. It would be nice if you posted some (even photos of a foot of snow would be a starter) rather than copying worthless graphs out of context.
A very selective group of readings were specifically chosen to formulate this graph. It depicts a premeditated scenario for the paper.
It is one of many in a paper I am sure you have not read – nor the manufacturer of the source from which you copied it. Just in case you want to educate yourself about the things you post, the paper was “Temperature trends with reduced impact of ocean air temperatures” (Lansner & Pedersen). Try reading it to see what they really say about global temperatures. I admit to not having read all of it myself. Just enough to get the feel of what the authors were researching, and I neither have the time nor the inclination to follow their work.
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
You do not follow this thread in its entirety do you? If you did you would have seen from my post #1407, P.71, how it was decided long, long ago that atmospheres such as that of Earth determine the temperature of a planet, and that very small changes in what are now known as greenhouse gasses have a dramatic effect on the temperature of a planet.
I have twice posted about the difference in temperatures between the surface of our moon and Earth which are at roughly the same distance from the Sun. Consider also the difference in temperatures between Venus and Mercury. Venus is almost twice the distance from the Sun as Mercury, yet its surface temperature is much higher. I suggest you find out why that is and you will agree that anthropogenic increases of greenhouse gasses have a profound effect on the Earth’s temperature.
Have a look again (or most probably for the first time) at the work of Fourier, Tyndall and Arrhenius. Or, if you mistrust foreign scientists, try that of the Englishman Guy Callendar pre WWII.
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
Have you listened to any of those videos made by "Diamond" as he calls himself? What a plonker. Yet many people are gullile enough to send him money for his crack-brained idea of this "ranch" project.
banjo
Member
- Location
- Back of beyond
April the 2nd 2018, 2 inches of snow in the yard today and it's bloody cold with it, putting the lambs to curl up. Roll on spring time and some grass !
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
banjo
Member
- Location
- Back of beyond
Have you lost your mind, I've been around for 45 years and I can't remember a wetter, snowy, colder year than this.
Your extreemist religious global warming lot need to start praying in front of the al gore statue for some warmer weather to start the grass growing, cos this cold is pissing me off.
By the way it's suposed to be global warming according to you lot
Campani
Member
Have you lost your mind, I've been around for 45 years and I can't remember a wetter, snowy, colder year than this.
Your extreemist religious global warming lot need to start praying in front of the al gore statue for some warmer weather to start the grass growing, cos this cold is pissing me off.
By the way it's suposed to be global warming according to you lot
You have never seen weather like this before? Mad, almost like the climate is changing.
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
Have you lost your mind, I've been around for 45 years and I can't remember a wetter, snowy, colder year than this.
Your extreemist religious global warming lot need to start praying in front of the al gore statue for some warmer weather to start the grass growing, cos this cold is pissing me off.
By the way it's suposed to be global warming according to you lot
You posted last Tuesday "Facts and evidence speak for themselves". All I did was post some facts and evidence to show that April snow is not unusual in the UK. I recall having your fabled "foot of snow" on 1 April one year in the mid 1990s. I had hired a rotavator the day before for a couple of days. Needless to say I did not get to use it.
I think I still have my mind, but I daresay one's mental state is always subjective. Since you are only 45 then you missed some really bad winters I have experienced, or were too young to remember. 1962/3 and 1978/9 were the worst that most folks in Northumberland will remember. I have not lived there since then, so there may have been other memorably bad ones. Anybody know what they were like in Banjo's area (somewhere in Wales)?
I follow the current weather thread on TFF, and whilst people complain (we farmers have alwasy complained about the weather) the "facts and evidence" do not show it being particularly wet - cold yes, but not particularly wet. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-22010852
You ignore our responses that we are not extremist religious people just because we accept facts and evidence and know global warming is happening. Despite recording 399 mm of rain since 27th February (and it is currently raining with more of the same forecast for the next two weeks) I recorded a max of 22.7ºC last Tuesday with Friday being the only day below 17º. Warm for the time of year. I have not verified it, but I think that was the earliest date we have topped 20. It can still be cold overnight though and 5 of the mins were 4.3 or below, with the lowest being 2.3. These held down the mean for the week.
With a mean of 9.49 for the first quarter we are marginally behind the last four years. For the sake of all those folk who will die or at least be displaced if global warming continues, I repeat what I and some other posters have previously said - we hope you are right about it going to cool down, but in the meantime the facts and evidence are not showing any signs of it happening.
1979 was my last lambing in the UK and you and all others have my extreme sympathy at this time of year if there is little or no sun and no grass. It can literally be the end of ones hopes and dreams. I was obliged to sell up and emigrate.
ollie989898
Member
LOL I am 45 and so my memory is a more useful record of weather and climatic conditions than any actual scientific data... O.K.... 1940 had a murderous winter so cold that the Thames froze and was nearly as bad as the one in 1963.
On to global warming:
On to global warming: