There are so many conflicting views and possible truths as to if and why the climate is changing and howmuch we are responsible for it, but as you say the more we use renewables the better,just in case
The great global warming scam, worth a listen I think.
- Thread starter banjo
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Pedders
Member
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- West Sussex
Thats just economic illiteracy .....
why ? IF we are causing global warming then we need to use far less hydro carbons,if we arent and renewables are cheaper over a 20 year period then it makes economic sense and off course they dont produce general polution either
Campani
Member
People who say fossil fuels aren't accelerating climate change can never agree on what's happening. Just on this forum I have heard:
- volcanoes are the cause of co2
-solar cycles are the cause of rising temperatures
- there is no rising temperatures.
-It's the same change that has all ways happened.
- it's the oceans that release co2.
- volcanoes are the cause of co2
-solar cycles are the cause of rising temperatures
- there is no rising temperatures.
-It's the same change that has all ways happened.
- it's the oceans that release co2.
Pedders
Member
- Location
- West Sussex
we're going off topic here but if renewables were cheaper over a 20 year period they wouldn't need subsidies would they .......
Wellytrack
Member
A NASA probe to be sent just for monitoring solar wind and flares.
Happy? @banjo
Pointing out the warnings, engineer Curtis Wilkerson chuckled. This summer, the Parker Solar Probe will launch on a journey that will send it skimming through the sun's atmosphere at a pace of 450,000 mph — fast enough to get from Washington to New York in about a second. It will fly within 4 million miles of the sun's surface — seven times closer than any spacecraft has gotten before. That heat shield will not only be exposed to sunlight, it must withstand blasts of 2,600 degrees Fahrenheit — while simultaneously maintaining the instruments on the other side at roughly room temperature.
After 60 years of advances in science and technology, this craft will probe our star's mysteries and monitor behavior that could affect everyone on Earth. “We will finally touch the sun,” Nicola Fox, the mission's project scientist, likes to say.
Happy? @banjo
Pointing out the warnings, engineer Curtis Wilkerson chuckled. This summer, the Parker Solar Probe will launch on a journey that will send it skimming through the sun's atmosphere at a pace of 450,000 mph — fast enough to get from Washington to New York in about a second. It will fly within 4 million miles of the sun's surface — seven times closer than any spacecraft has gotten before. That heat shield will not only be exposed to sunlight, it must withstand blasts of 2,600 degrees Fahrenheit — while simultaneously maintaining the instruments on the other side at roughly room temperature.
After 60 years of advances in science and technology, this craft will probe our star's mysteries and monitor behavior that could affect everyone on Earth. “We will finally touch the sun,” Nicola Fox, the mission's project scientist, likes to say.
Guess it depends on which ones and how its done, I looked at putting some panels on a new shed we were doing but unless we used most of the power it didnt stack up as I couldnt put a roof mounted set up in my pension, but I could have done it with a ground mounted one which would have made it a good investment, we are now looking at using solar tiles on a barn conversion which while the tiles are dear the difference between them and using normal tiles and being able to use all the power and store it in batteries is looking viable, any sub will be a bonus and to be honest as with most subs it just pushes the price of anything up and the seller pockets it in reality
RobFZS
Member
Why exactly has it got it be one specific thing on a complicated place such as this Earth?
Campani
Member
because a lot of people are so adamant it's not caused by burning fossil fuels.
You can't say, oh it's so complicated I don't know what's going on and then on the other hand say, it's definitely not being caused by fossil fuels.
RobFZS
Member
Put it this way, at the moment we have to make a compromise between polluting ourselves with fossil fuels until we develop better means of energy, or living in mud huts, hoping not to upset a constantly changing eco system.
7.6 billion humans farting, burping and doing god knows what else has never happened in the history of this planet, so maybe that's another thing to add to the list of why the climate changes, but then what do we do about that?
It's all relative, we make the most of what we have and adapt.
It's also all pretty tedious with this drive for electric cars that will ultimately end in an authoritative government having the sole means of 'fuel' production for your means of transport, if we want to see how well government delivers a service such as that, just try booking an early driving test appointment, or having something done on the NHS immediately without literally being carted in on a life support machine.
Your right and that point is very close, if not already past, but neccesary to trigger economic demand, that in turn triggers R&D and manufacturers to scale up production to lower the entry price, you have to start somewhere, and that somewhere is subsidies, you entice consumers to adopt create a market that big business jumps on and invests in they crank up production, prices drop until the system become self sustaining.
If subsidies continue after that it's to increase the speed of adoption, the other way is increase TAX on oil and gas and just price them out of use, but that's not an option until you have a ready replacement in the wings.
Entirely new industries have had to be started from virtually scratch, it all takes cash.
But the undeniable truth is if we go totaly over to renewables, energy will be a fraction of current energy costs, but we are good way off that.
I just look at TAX and subsidies as down payments for a better cleaner place to live, where most people self generate there energy at home, which also powers there cars. And we have no pollution in our cities. It sounds terrible....lol no pain no gain.
If you care to elaborate, how thinking climate change is real, is damaging trend, maybe we could understand your point.
Its actualy more likely most people will end up self generating, their energy, it's more likely to see an end to giant energy producers and centralised power production.
And to be honest what you discribe in your quote is what we have now. Goverments control the supply and price of oil and gas, mostly with Taxes and international trade deals.
What could be further from, a solar array on your property generating and exporting energy, for self consumption or sale, or an energy credit system that allows you to spend them to recharge your car anywhere you like at no cost, if your a home generator is producing it. Electric cars are still in early iterations, give it until 2040 when they will be nearly mandatory, or until a good new cheap battery tech drops, it will slash ownership costs so massively that no one will want an fuel based cars. Especialy if they have solar. A large % of electric cars costs are still in the batteries, slash them in price add in free recharging from solar. Why wouldn't you buy one.
RobFZS
Member
Unless they stick the a solar panel on the roof of these cars, they wont have a chance in hell of being charged up in a street, what i can see happening is the gradual pricing out of normal cars, and thus, those with only off road parking will have the privilege of 'refueling' their car, forcing people to use public transport.
Until those points are addressed, i can only go with the facts at hand, rather than some pipe dream.
Inductive charging, or in street smart chargers that can tell who is charging.
The other option is you charge while the car is parked at shops or your job, like I said energy credits you generate at home you use out and about, so you can charge for free.
The only way these problems get solved is if there is a need to solve them, it's the chicken and the egg problem until people need to charge cars it's expensive to install charging systems for a handful of cars, fast forward to millions of electric cars, they solve the charging problems, most likely super fast charging stations (minutes not hours) where you can spend your energy credits your earning at home. Just like filling stations we have now just superfast charge stations.
No need for street charging then...... battery tech is moving fast, if you look that's one of the big decreases in the time it takes to charge them.....
What seem like problems now, will be solved as they need to be, obviously people who like you say will have problems charging at home will be the last to adopt, electric cars. It's a natural prosses the people who can easiestly adopt electric cars will be followed incrementally by the rest, as the numbers of electric cars rise, these problems get solved to remove the barriers for the next group and so on until, the point there are no barriers to which you elude, and everyone can go electric.
It was the same for petrol cars at the beginning..... As they replaced horses, they got cheaper and easier to fuel up and service.
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Pedders
Member
- Location
- West Sussex
because people become prepared to put up with everything foisted upon them in the name of saving the planet whether it makes logical sense or not .
.viz useless electric cars that are three times as expensive have no range and can't be charged as there aren't any charging points ,wind turbines that chop up thousands of bats and birds daily and leave toxic lakes from the rare metals needed in their manufacture to the solar panels that create toxic waste when they are manufactured and then leave behind more toxic waste when they are discarded
couple all that with the subsidies being extracted by the wealthiest landowners from the poorest in society and the jobs lost in manufacturing as a result of the higher electricity prices necessary to pay for it all and the whole thing turns out to be nothing more than a giant Ponzi scheme with no discernible benefit and its the gullible fools who believe in man made climate change who are allowing it to happen ....
linga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion
Well we are all entitled to our own opinions but I don’t think it’s either gullible or foolish to look at the data and observations and conclude that man made global warming is real.
I always wonder why the skeptics have to accuse those who don’t agree with their view of being foolish , idiots , fraudulent etc. And then try to justify their position with hyperbole and wild statements such as turbines chopping up thousands of birds and bats, toxic lakes etc.
It’s not as if the fossil fuel industry is squeaky clean in terms of toxicity and damage to wildlife
Pedders
Member
- Location
- West Sussex
Nice
RobFZS
Member
I Admire your optimism, but i'm not sold, remember this?
I reckon i'll be dead before any of the above happens in real time, and i've got another 75 years left on this planet no doubt, i ride motorcycles from the late 80's because the brand new ones lack character and spirit, no doubt the 'electric revolution' will be the same.
Once the gov catches up, we wont be anymore better off, but we'll just have electric cars... just like in farming, we've got all these advances, and where has it left us, doing a load of work, for no money and the group of men you used to work with to keep you sane are doing something else, progress?!
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