Roger Perry
Member
You are always say, give me fact's..........that is a fact..!
The most dangerous man in the world
- Thread starter rob1
- Start date
should have let him build his wall, he might have looked more favourably at a quick deal for ireland when the eurotannic sinks.
its yourself
Member
- Location
- Scotland, Finland and France.
For the past decade at least anti EU types have said that the EU has only weeks left.
It's still there.
Funny that.
ah we have a volunteer to play the joyous ode while it slips below the icy waters
its yourself
Member
- Location
- Scotland, Finland and France.
If it goes under today you'll be there too.
We're still members.
Another 2 years minimum yet as well.
ps have you forgotten what Theresa said on Tuesday already?
tic tock tic tock
its yourself
Member
- Location
- Scotland, Finland and France.
wanton dwarf
Member
Terrible biased junk.
There is no "steel mills or Google" ... and before you laud the IT crappy companies the realisation they pay little to no tax throughout the world AND have hoarded their $Trillions off shore paying no tax in America either.
Quite frankly I find them disgusting ... people need money rotated around the economy ... these companies need hitting as hard as possible.
As regards the "Steel Mills" ... everyone needs jobs, people love doing different things ... who are you to decide what people should do ?
Silicon valley doesn't trade throughout the world .. it sucks resources massively and gives back VERY little.
tick tock tic tock
wanton dwarf
Member
ollie989898
Member
LOL
Crappy IT companies.... ok mate. Don't trade worldwide? What the cronk are you on about? Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Qualcomm, their products are EVERYWHERE. Wake up man.
Right now these companies are hard at work perfecting driverless cars, driverless trucks, driverless forklifts, developing deep learning and AI.
Steel mills, ship building, coal mining, it's all an old pastiche, unfortunately Korea, Australia and China are happy to do it, and apparently are able to do so cheaper than domestic industry.
People try to blame Thatcher for the decline of industrial Britain. Not at all. She merely speeded up what would happen anyway. Tony Blair sealed the deal by centring energy policy on burning gas in combined cycle gas turbine power stations, neatly dodging the need for coal or any additional oil and avoiding the need to make any kind of decision on nuclear power.
The ship building and aviation industries in the UK were already going to be killed because of the end of the Cold war.
It is all very simple in reality.
its yourself
Member
- Location
- Scotland, Finland and France.
wanton dwarf
Member
Trade is a TWO way process. Taking money and adding nothing to the community does not an economy make.
Creating "Driverless cars" ... so what, all humans can drive and they can do a LOT more.
Any of those cars that comes across a situation they are not programmed to deal with they will FAIL ... not just once but EVERY time.
AI ? ok, where is this AI ? Does it actually do ANYTHING ? Can it learn on it's own ? feed itself ? repair itself ? learn within milliseconds ? processes & associate information anywhere from multiple senses ? Humans do that ALL the time and they are cheap.
No just like the car that AI won't even know when it's making a mistake nor will it learn not to make it.
It's just another load of BS pushed by "The Guardian".
The Neo Liberals put MASSIVE unjustified "Climate Change" taxes on power, pushing jobs abroad. Milliband the son of an ex communist from Russia shafted the UK. Where do you think gas comes from ? no need for additional oil ? Gas is or was a waste product burnt off from OIL WELLS.
And let's take a close look at the UK economy, which areas of the UK have done well & which haven't ... lets correlate that with who gets more money from HMG & the EU.
Ah yes, non productive environmental jobs, charities, bureacracy all paid for by everyone else.
ollie989898
Member
You are a luddite.
There are youtube videos of Tesla cars avoiding accidents- a computer can react far faster than a human brain can. Go watch them.
In America they have thousands of miles of road network and the national fleet of 18 wheeler trucks is categorically insane. A punnet of strawberries grown in California trucked to Florida- that's probably over 2000 miles. All done by expensive labour which needs brakes and makes mistakes, gets tired, takes holidays, suffers from illnesses, you name it.
Early this week I was on a factory visit, the largest of it's kind in the world. I won't say where it is or what was being manufactured but it literally involved the mixing, packaging and boxing of products. In seconds I realised that the machines were doing all the work. The people there were only looking after machines, and loading them with raw materials. From that point onwards, the entire process was automated. Cans filled, labelled, sealed and boxed all by machine. Even a robot was stacking the pallets.
There were guys driving forklifts all over the shop, to and fro. Then I remembered a good buddy of mine who used to work for a company who manufacture AGVs.
I even said to our tour guide that within not many years the only human element in that factory will be people loading in raw materials and conducting quality control. An automated forklift swarm can pickup empty pallets and load other machines ready to be used. They can drop loaded pallets on wrapping stations and also stack the ready product on a shelf in a warehouse. Maybe need a human to load lorries which of course are rarely standardised.
Automated trucks and cars will become the norm. Once it has been demonstrated that they are safe, and in fact, probably safer than a human operator with a high degree of reliability there will be no stopping them.
Had an accident with an autonomous truck? Good luck; they will be outfitted with cameras to record their every move and provide evidence in the event of an accident.
This kind of automation has happened already in a myriad of other industries. Steel making is all done by machine operators, little is done by hand today. It's big heavy lumps of steel which are red hot- not the ideal kind of task for a human hand. Ditto coal mining. Either a bloke sat on a monumental machine in a safe air conditioned cab, or sat on a half automated underground mining machine where is safer from dust and accidents. No more shovels and pick axes.
Technology only ever gets cheaper, wage inflation is inevitable.
The UK gas supply is dwindling. Just like North sea oil. If there was plenty left do you really think they would bother to go to the expense of burying a pipeline under the sea bed to bring it from Norway?
AI? It's already on it's way. Before long it will be able to run the automated factory I described above, manage road networks, even fly aircraft, with the scalability of computers and computer networks, who knows what task might be within it's reach? Automated air traffic control, who is to say?
wanton dwarf
Member
Yes they were machines.
Funnily enough I've written manufacturing software for the food & drinks sector for decades.
All machines FAIL, they are built to fail. Every machine you mention will fail - even if it is maintained - that goes for the electronic components as well - as well as the software.
All products change ... the machines change, the moulds change the raw materials change the speeds change the legislation changes ... it never stands still.
There never will be automated lines for everything for two very good reasons.
1) Only the biggest companies on the biggest sites will be able to afford them doing very high repetative volume products. As is done today and has been done for decades.
2) Even when there is automation, when there is a fault who is going to fix it ? It might be a hardware, software, raw materials or even environmental problem.
Hey presto you've priced yourself out of the market because your limited market product just doesnt have the volume to justify all the automation.
Factories have been integrated with software for decades ... both me & my brother have worked on automating brewing.
So what ? you've saved a few people on the factory floor and replaced them with VERY expensive software and maintenance men. That will not change no matter how much, "AI" that doesn't exist yet, is put in place.
Machines fail, software needs changing for new products, hardware, protocols, regulation, reporting etc
Does this mean brewing is now all automated ... no we have micro breweries which strangley enough are very profitable and are run by humans.
Now lets go back to your vision of the future of factories ... see let's just remember how that factory got where it was ... oh yes people knowing the product, improving it, evolving it and hence staying ahead of the competition. One of the reasons the humans can compete is because .. yes that's right ... they make a BETTER product.
Great ... you create that automated factory and it's evolutionary dead - what's more you have NO human work force constantly improving the business.
Most of the sutff you state is already there, automated but over seen, checked and controlled by humans ... why ? because humans can adapt to circumstances within milliseconds - whereas a computer doesn't even know if it's sensors are faulty or are not checking the widget that is failing.
I once said to a Managing Director of a canning line run by women out of the town ... "You could automate that".
Yes he said, but people need something to do and I have a social responsibility to the people in the area.
Yes he did, those women gained employment and were more able to care after their children to create the next generation because they had a job.
Computers like a spanner are tools - nothing more. People make a business and it takes makers, destroyers, technocrats etc.
All gas supplies dwindle whether they are from Norway or not.
ollie989898
Member
Micro-breweries are a completely different matter entirely. They are a tiny shard of what the brewing industry used to be. If you ever had anything to do with the Bass brewery you would realise why the brewing industry went through armageddon as it was modernised and basically became a system of men in white coats running a factory to produce a range of liquids, all easily done.
Machines fail, so what? Repair or replace them.
And as for the gas, once the Norwegians are out, they will pipe it from the Ukraine/Russia or the middle east. Why do you think the EU is so cosy with Turkey- they intend to run a pipeline from Iran.
If humans were so great at routine tasks you would not see legions of robots in factories worldwide, doing repetitive, boring, complex or just plain dangerous jobs, or even those beyond the scope of a human being due to weight restrictions etc.
So what, software and machinery is expensive? If it does not bring commercial advantage to a business it will not be used or developed. It is that simple. Fortunately humans are equally expensive, and in fact, sometimes labour is very difficult to source regardless of how much pay is on offer.
Who is arguing computers are not tools? I stated that they can run machines night and day, their abilities only limited by technological constraints that even today are being pushed, as cameras and image recognition, laser, ultrascound beams etc are being used to identify and detect objects. On the contrary, I would argue that machinery and computers are limited only by the imagination of the humans who design and develop them. An entire team of warehouse staff, sat on forklifts, the technology already exists to replace them with robotised alternatives. Go away and google it and tell me it ain't so.
wanton dwarf
Member
I did the Marston's software integration and it was decades ago. My brother did Cores. Men in white coats doesn't account for the back office staff. Not correct.
It was not "Armageddon". They already had an IT system which was mainframe orientated. The staff that could not retrain were made redundant. New staff were taken on for the auto processing. People like me were used to create the software. So what ? There's no AI.
This is what you said.
"Right now these companies are hard at work perfecting driverless cars, driverless trucks, driverless forklifts, developing deep learning and AI."
"Automated trucks and cars will become the norm."
"Had an accident with an autonomous truck? Good luck; they will be outfitted with cameras to record their every move and provide evidence in the event of an accident."
As I have stated, it's not required, it's expensive, they will fail and when they fail they will fail repetatively because they are NOT intelligent - in fact they are the complete opposite. Humans learn from their mistakes, computers do not.
The reality is the small to medium sized company distributing stuff by lorries will still do it using the cheap labour, cheaply maintained older lorries and sub £10,000 forklifts run by multi tasking manual based staff. Most of the people employed in the UK are done so using small to medium sized companies. If you replaced these people/machines there is not the money available to justify it.
There already are automated warehouses mainly used in mail sorting or large distribution ... doesn't mean most people are going to be lose their jobs because they ALREADY use automated retrieval. They don't use robotic forklifts in the conventional sense, they use an automated system designed for the job which might have a passing nod to forklifts but will include conveyor belts with inbuilt sorting & bay selection.
There is no need to use lasers, identify objects etc because the products are already sorted into bins/locations they are retrieved and trafficked by conveyor belts and bar scanned on route. Already done .. they've even got GSM units in some products to track where they are. Faster than any system you are proposing.
I'm pointing out to you the tech was there decades ago for automation ... there is no "revolution" because the costs to implement it at the smaller end users/companies is too large to justify the expense. You have an "automated" wagon, how is it going to deliver to farms off the road with uneven surfaces & hazards, same with small companies. How is this lorry going to dleiver to the corner shops, super markets .. they currently use hand pallet trucks or just hands.
Therefore it won't become the "norm".
It doesn't matter how many cameras you have on the "automated" lorry. If the mechanics, electronics or software fails the "automated lorry" will kill people. Now given I know my car has items which failed from new within less than 1 year ... good luck with "driverless" becoming the norm.
Simple question?.......have any of the people talking about automated machinery or lorrys ever actually driven one?.....it is fairly simple to talk about technology sites and things that are in the works but yet another to talk about things that are realistic...none of the above are realistically reliable or cost effective....technology has its place....don't mistake my intent.....but you are batshit crazy if you think that tractors and cars can run themselves right now....human factors...I will continue to live a sustainable life by myself...every single person that I have discussed this with doesn't have an answer about what happens when something doesn't work.....ask yourself this.....would the FAA put up with the bulls**t problems with satellite failure that we have to??....hell no!!....dropping sat signals?....no correction??....guess what?....when my gps didn't work I still dropped markers and got things done...this while all is turning into a bunch of total pussies that don't understand how to fix anything or do anything for themselves....sorry for the rant but this crap is tired and overtalked for how well it is perceived and is....