I guess an ELMS payment for Permanent Pasture, with grazing stipulations, would be the closest we would get to a suckler cow premium in today's language ?
Where would be the multiplier effect of that £ ?
The Multiplier Effect
- Thread starter delilah
- Start date
I guess an ELMS payment for Permanent Pasture, with grazing stipulations, would be the closest we would get to a suckler cow premium in today's language ?
Where would be the multiplier effect of that £ ?
No idea really... all depends on the amount of largesse coming our way.
It's £1.
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
If arable farming became less attractive with no sub, where would livestock farmers get all their grain and straw. I assume by livestock we're talking beef and dairy, sheep pigs and poultry?
The arable farmers may decide they want to get into stock too, which would increase supply, perhaps dropping prices?
The arable farmers may decide they want to get into stock too, which would increase supply, perhaps dropping prices?
Yes.
Each is equally damaging to the relevant sector
It will have the same proportional effect by----
1) Prolonging farmer dependency on handouts
2) Stifling innovation
3) Sustaining the ''we are owed it'' culture
4) Ruining any chance of increasing sustainable business development in farming
etc etc
- Location
- Wiltshire
My first thought was as I do both do I get £2 
Seriously though, I have already said in another post today about the lack of any respect for those who feed the country, my feeling is that the subsidy/payment system has had a direct effect on this and not in a good way. I think it’s time to move on however difficult that maybe for us food producers. Do I think ELMS will help this? Almost certainly not.
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Seriously though, I have already said in another post today about the lack of any respect for those who feed the country, my feeling is that the subsidy/payment system has had a direct effect on this and not in a good way. I think it’s time to move on however difficult that maybe for us food producers. Do I think ELMS will help this? Almost certainly not.
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If arable farmers have more money due to a specialised sub they wont want to sell the straw as they wont need to and will push the rent up for everyone includeing themselves , making everyones business higher cost includeing their own , rural employment and industry/economy will contract as they tend to invest in bigger and more specialised machinery in the case of broad acre crops whilst maximising their scale .The creation of the AD industry more or less illustrates what would happen with regard to this scenario and the effect on other sectors not recieving equivalent sub income .
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
My first thought was as I do both do I get £2
Seriously though, I have already said in another post today about the lack of any respect for those who feed the country, my feeling is that the subsidy/payment system has had a direct effect on this and not in a good way. I think it’s time to move on however difficult that maybe for us food producers. Do I think ELMS will help this? Almost certainly not.
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Does anyone get any respect for anything these days?
- Location
- Wiltshire
I had a conversation with my son last night, he is working on a very large dairy farm in Ontario. Last week he went to his local supermarket wearing his work kit with the business logos on it. The cafe gave him a free lunch because he was a farmer feeding the nation.
Meanwhile back here last week I had a zoom with my milk processor, part of this discussion was regarding negative press regarding dairy farms and the likelihood that we will have issues with antis (I have already had masked people taking photos of my cattle). Perhaps respect was the wrong word but it seems to me that many of the population no longer see the link between farms and the food on their plate, we are all just wealthy landowners taking handouts from the government.
It’s not right and I don’t really know the solution to the problem.
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How many lorry loads of lime does £1 buy nowadays?
and if I didn’t spend all of my £1 on lime do you know of any lime spreading contractors who would spread the stuff for me?
Courier
Member
- Location
- M62 - M1 - M18 triangle
I must be looking in the wrong place as well 'cos nowhere in any "ELMS" blurb can I see any mention of producing goods for consumption more sustainably, more efficiently and therefore more profitably - - -
- Location
- Darlington
Is lime VATable? But remember the livestock farmers government handout of £1 towards his Valtra will only be 80pence as the other 20p will be vat, so he has been conned already by the gov
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Negative?
From what I gather, beef worldwide is a break-even business for the vast majority of producers.
The more money that gets thrown your way, the worse off you effectively become, because the need to be permanently profitable is reduced by "the safety net"
(as per road warnings and barriers and signage, it only helps the lower percentile reach their destination, and this means more fools on the road slowing everything down)
it depends on perception, both examples do. Do you really need 11,000 people doing the job of 1100 or is it just "comfy" to have so many competitors with similar resources and outlook?
"The job is f**ked" because so many people do the same job .
"Input costs keep rising" because people can still afford the inputs
"Farmgate prices are stuck in the 1970s" because the way of doing business is stuck in the 1970s
and so on
FonterraFarmer
Member
- Location
- Waikato, New Zealand
I'd be happy with a new Valtra, preferably a BM or BH with ROPS and Hi Six transmission....The livestock farmer will spaff it all on new Valtras.
Think I bought an International once that had a Multiplier gearbox.
FonterraFarmer
Member
- Location
- Waikato, New Zealand
Given what's written in this forum and how things are done in Canada from what I've seen in Canada, it's not surprising that the attitudes of farmers and consumers on opposite sides of the Atlantic are completely different!!!
Livestock/mixed farmers are always telling us arable farmers how it’s our fault we have the problems we do because we don’t have animals, no dung on grass etc. Alright then mate be careful what you wish for!
Answers the question perfectly
Each £ reduces the long term viability of the ag. industry in the ways i described , equally in all sectors
Given all the negative press about livestock damage to the environment and causing climate change , the woman in No 10 Downing St will make sure livestock farmers get as little ££££ as possible compared to the arable farmers , but to answer the question , a £1 to smaller farms would I think , support a local economy better, livestock or arable ,