The Multiplier Effect

[Nukemall]

Not at all. Reason for the thread:
We are told that one of the aims of ELMS is to 'increase productivity'. If we take it that 'productivity' is just a polite word for 'profitability', then where will the greatest impact be achieved ? Giving the £ to the livestock farmer, or to the arable farmer ?

In no way is productivity a polite word for profitability.
They want productivity, to give an ample supply of cheap food.
They want limited profitability to ensure we are all motivated enough to keep wanting to increase our productivity.
If they bung a bit of cash to keep the books balanced we will keep producing at very close to our cost of production.

 

[Top Tip.]

There have been studies done which show the multiplier effect of subsidies and for the Western Isles of Scotland for each pound it was worth 7 to the wider economy ,there was one area in England which was as much as 10.

 

[delilah]

Answers the question perfectly
Each £ reduces the long term viability of the ag. industry in the ways i described , equally in all sectors

So £1 of taxpayer money given to the livestock farmer results in a retraction in the size of the agricultural economy by more than £1, the size of that retraction being the same as if that £1 was given to the arable farmer ?
On that basis 70 years of taxpayer money should have resulted in agriculture disappearing by now ?

 

[Yale]

Livestock/mixed farmers are always telling us arable farmers how it’s our fault we have the problems we do because we don’t have animals, no dung on grass etc. Alright then mate be careful what you wish for!

Have you ever had to see to an ewe with dead lambs.

Thought not.....

 

[Tarw Coch]

Have you ever had to see to an ewe with dead lambs.

Thought not.....

Or tried to get the smell off after pulling them

 

[Tarw Coch]

There have been studies done which show the multiplier effect of subsidies and for the Western Isles of Scotland for each pound it was worth 7 to the wider economy ,there was one area in England which was as much as 10.

I seem to recall the NFU had done some research a year or three back showing every £1 given to farming was worth £7 to the wider economy

 

[fgc325j]

Given all the negative press about livestock damage to the environment and causing climate change , the woman in No 10 Downing St will make sure livestock farmers get as little ££££ as possible compared to the arable farmers , but to answer the question , a £1 to smaller farms would I think , support a local economy better, livestock or arable ,

Do you think the "woman in No10" - Carrie - has a favourable view of arable farmers???.

 

[kiwi pom]

Livestock/mixed farmers are always telling us arable farmers how it’s our fault we have the problems we do because we don’t have animals, no dung on grass etc. Alright then mate be careful what you wish for!

A new setup on a large ring fenced arable unit with minimal housing, a good rotation and close to straw and grain could result in a lower COP than some of the smaller spread out livestock only units?

 

[Yale]

A new setup on a large ring fenced arable unit with minimal housing, a good rotation and close to straw and grain could result in a lower COP than some of the smaller spread out livestock only units?

And how much investment would that take on a bigger arable farm?

Fencing,purchase of stock,extra labour.

There‘s a reason why arable farmers don’t keep stock.

 

[ajd132]

And how much investment would that take on a bigger arable farm?

Fencing,purchase of stock,extra labour.

There‘s a reason why arable farmers don’t keep stock.

The main reason being we’ve had chemical and synthetic fertiliser solutions. Which don’t work that well anymore and we’ve degraded our soils. Although saying that I don’t want to work with animals. But some kind of JV with a livestock person who currently has bits and bobs all over the place could be the future on big arable units.

 

[No wot]

Do you think the "woman in No10" - Carrie - has a favourable view of arable farmers???.

Possibly if organic

 

[Yale]

The main reason being we’ve had chemical and synthetic fertiliser solutions. Which don’t work that well anymore and we’ve degraded our soils. Although saying that I don’t want to work with animals. But some kind of JV with a livestock person who currently has bits and bobs all over the place could be the future on big arable units.

I hear you however is someone else really going to do all the work whilst the (stereotypical) arable farmer goes skiing and shooting all winter.

If it doesn’t stack up to pay staff to keep the livestock why should it pay a stockman in a JV?

 

[ajd132]

I hear you however is someone else really going to do all the work whilst the (stereotypical) arable farmer goes skiing and shooting all winter.

If it doesn’t stack up to pay staff to keep the livestock why should it pay a stockman in a JV?

i think its more about working together to utilize one another's skill sets and expertise as opposed to generalisations about skiing.

 

[kiwi pom]

I hear you however is someone else really going to do all the work whilst the (stereotypical) arable farmer goes skiing and shooting all winter.

If it doesn’t stack up to pay staff to keep the livestock why should it pay a stockman in a JV?

Depends how big the unit is I suppose, if it's big enough for a fulltime stockman, then the shooting and skiing can continue.
If nothing else it would give the tractor drivers something to do in winter.
My last UK job was dairy, beef, spuds and grain, didn't see much of the boss all winter.

 

[Tim W]

So £1 of taxpayer money given to the livestock farmer results in a retraction in the size of the agricultural economy by more than £1, the size of that retraction being the same as if that £1 was given to the arable farmer ?
On that basis 70 years of taxpayer money should have resulted in agriculture disappearing by now ?

I don't actually see much taxpayer cash being invested in the farming economy
But many years of ''investing'' taxpayers cash into rewarding landownership (different from farming) has only resulted in landowners who think they can't survive without the handouts and that they are entitled to them
It has also had the unfortunate effect of many landowners using this subsidy to prop up their poor farming businesses
If cash were invested in farming to the same degree i would expect the same result ?

 

[Nick Adams]

Neither. Give it to mixed farmers at or below average size.

 

[ajd132]

Neither. Give it to mixed farmers at or below average size.

are you a mixed farmer at or below average size?

 

[Top Tip.]

I hear you however is someone else really going to do all the work whilst the (stereotypical) arable farmer goes skiing and shooting all winter.

If it doesn’t stack up to pay staff to keep the livestock why should it pay a stockman in a JV?

It’s not that it doesn’t stack up, it’s the inconvenience of livestock. You can’t walk away from sheep or cattle at five o’clock on a Friday and come back on Monday morning. Sheep in the low ground situation have been way more profitable than most arable crops but I don’t see folk clambering to get into sheep.

 

[Nick Adams]

are you a mixed farmer at or below average size?

Yes

 

[colhonk]

Does skiing and shooting all winter farmers actually exist? (apart from Clive)