The next battle

[Walterp]

'No deal better than a bad deal' now lies dead and buried in Florence, interred alongside another chunk of the Conservatives' credibility.

They may not miss it now, arguing among themselves whilst the country sighs with impatience, but they will - challenged by Jeremy Corbyn to outline where the UK is going, no Cabinet member dare describe a direction that varies very much from what the EU looks like today, for fear of contradiction by each other as much as by Labour.

With Hard Brexit no longer possible as an outcome, the next battle will be won by the party prepared to design a viable end state. And the only person talking about how the UK should look like is Mr Corbyn.

Perhaps it's 1945 all over again - the Tories never saw the Labour landslide coming, despite the straws in the wind of the steady loss of Conservative seats, and the determination of the British people (they still thought of themselves as that, then) to enjoy the fruits of democracy.

They were too busy, patting themselves on the back for having won a war, to realise that there's always another battle to win.

Self-indulgent then, self-indulgent now.

 

[Pond digger]

'No deal better than a bad deal' now lies dead and buried in Florence, interred alongside another chunk of the Conservatives' credibility.

They may not miss it now, arguing among themselves whilst the country sighs with impatience, but they will - challenged by Jeremy Corbyn to outline where the UK is going, no Cabinet member dare describe a direction that varies very much from what the EU looks like today, for fear of contradiction by each other as much as by Labour.

With Hard Brexit no longer possible as an outcome, the next battle will be won by the party prepared to design a viable end state. And the only person talking about how the UK should look like is Mr Corbyn.

Perhaps it's 1945 all over again - the Tories never saw the Labour landslide coming, despite the straws in the wind of the steady loss of Conservative seats, and the determination of the British people (they still thought of themselves as that, then) to enjoy the fruits of democracy.

They were too busy, patting themselves on the back for having won a war, to realise that there's always another battle to win.

Self-indulgent then, self-indulgent now.

So how's farming going to fare under a Corbyn government, do you think? Wholesale nationalisation, and a right to roam over anywhere and everywhere?

 

[Ashtree]

So how's farming going to fare under a Corbyn government, do you think? Wholesale nationalisation, and a right to roam over anywhere and everywhere?

Good point. UK farming outside EU and the energetic farm friendly governments and lobby groups of the French and Irish in particular will be toast.
Neither Labour or Tories will give farming a moments thought other than how to offer it as a sacrifice in the interests of a trade deal with the Junta's in S America or or the corporate driven president of USA!

 

[7610 super q]

Good point. UK farming outside EU and the energetic farm friendly governments and lobby groups of the French and Irish in particular will be toast.
Neither Labour or Tories will give farming a moments thought other than how to offer it as a sacrifice in the interests of a trade deal with the Junta's in S America or or the corporate driven president of USA!

I often hear how " The French farmers with their protests will help us out ". But over the years....have they ?
To my mind EU ag policy has held us back, allowing 1970's prices in the 21st C, with subs to fall back on. (Assuming you weren't fed to the wolves in the great goal post moving swindle in 2005).
I agree with your last paragraph, but UK governments have only given lip service to farming for the last 40 years.

 

[baabaa]

Good point. UK farming outside EU and the energetic farm friendly governments and lobby groups of the French and Irish in particular will be toast.
Neither Labour or Tories will give farming a moments thought other than how to offer it as a sacrifice in the interests of a trade deal with the Junta's in S America or or the corporate driven president of USA!

mmmmmmmm seems like it is irish beef farmers who have most to worry about
good aul eu and their trade deals
http://www.independent.ie/business/...it-double-whammy-for-beef-sector-36144580.htm

 

[Henarar]

mmmmmmmm seems like it is irish beef farmers who have most to worry about
good aul eu and their trade deals
http://www.independent.ie/business/...it-double-whammy-for-beef-sector-36144580.htm

you didn't answer my question

 

[baabaa]

you didn't answer my question

ask a silly question..................

 

[Henarar]

ask a silly question..................

That's a no then

 

[turbo]

'No deal better than a bad deal' now lies dead and buried in Florence, interred alongside another chunk of the Conservatives' credibility.

They may not miss it now, arguing among themselves whilst the country sighs with impatience, but they will - challenged by Jeremy Corbyn to outline where the UK is going, no Cabinet member dare describe a direction that varies very much from what the EU looks like today, for fear of contradiction by each other as much as by Labour.

With Hard Brexit no longer possible as an outcome, the next battle will be won by the party prepared to design a viable end state. And the only person talking about how the UK should look like is Mr Corbyn.

Perhaps it's 1945 all over again - the Tories never saw the Labour landslide coming, despite the straws in the wind of the steady loss of Conservative seats, and the determination of the British people (they still thought of themselves as that, then) to enjoy the fruits of democracy.

They were too busy, patting themselves on the back for having won a war, to realise that there's always another battle to win.

Self-indulgent then, self-indulgent now.

Why isn't hard brexit on the cards?,all tm said on Friday is that is our position so if the eu don't like it we are back to proper brexit oh sorry hard brexit and I now notice that corbyn is singing a different tune about leaving so you will have to vote lib dems next time if you want to stick 2 fingers up to democracy

 

[jendan]

I often hear how " The French farmers with their protests will help us out ". But over the years....have they ?
To my mind EU ag policy has held us back, allowing 1970's prices in the 21st C, with subs to fall back on. (Assuming you weren't fed to the wolves in the great goal post moving swindle in 2005).
I agree with your last paragraph, but UK governments have only given lip service to farming for the last 40 years.

Read some biographies or writings of our previous Minister of Agricultures before 1973,and you will get an idea of whats coming! With the notable exception of 1945-47,when food was still acutely short.Even then,the government of the day talked Jim Turner and the NFU into accepting price control,instead of exacting any price they wanted,and could have got!

 

[7610 super q]

Read some biographies or writings of our previous Minister of Agricultures before 1973,and you will get an idea of whats coming! With the notable exception of 1945-47,when food was still acutely short.Even then,the government of the day talked Jim Turner and the NFU into accepting price control,instead of exacting any price they wanted,and could have got!

Ah well, the future holds no fear for me. I've farmed on a shoestring for 30 years, and lost my SFP in 2005.
Things can only get better as far as I'm concerned.

 

[rob1]

'No deal better than a bad deal' now lies dead and buried in Florence, interred alongside another chunk of the Conservatives' credibility.

They may not miss it now, arguing among themselves whilst the country sighs with impatience, but they will - challenged by Jeremy Corbyn to outline where the UK is going, no Cabinet member dare describe a direction that varies very much from what the EU looks like today, for fear of contradiction by each other as much as by Labour.

With Hard Brexit no longer possible as an outcome, the next battle will be won by the party prepared to design a viable end state. And the only person talking about how the UK should look like is Mr Corbyn.

Perhaps it's 1945 all over again - the Tories never saw the Labour landslide coming, despite the straws in the wind of the steady loss of Conservative seats, and the determination of the British people (they still thought of themselves as that, then) to enjoy the fruits of democracy.

They were too busy, patting themselves on the back for having won a war, to realise that there's always another battle to win.

Self-indulgent then, self-indulgent now.

So is this the corbyn and labour party that have anned a debate on rexit so as to cover up there true wishlist (if they know it themselves) from their own members many of whom voted leave, how very communist of them, stop any dissent by refusing debate

 

[bobk]

Why isn't hard brexit on the cards?,all tm said on Friday is that is our position so if the eu don't like it we are back to proper brexit oh sorry hard brexit and I now notice that corbyn is singing a different tune about leaving so you will have to vote lib dems next time if you want to stick 2 fingers up to democracy

That's my take on the situation , if they continue to be negative to our position now, they can swivel .

 

[Walterp]

So how's farming going to fare under a Corbyn government, do you think? Wholesale nationalisation, and a right to roam over anywhere and everywhere?

Yes, right to roam is in Scotland, and is coming to Wales.

Is it not a fair exchange for agricultural support?

On re-nationalisation, the railways were a (rail)bridge too far,and ought not to have been privatised in the first place. Many European countries run their own networks, and they are fast, clean, efficient and a pleasure to use.

So, a qualified 'yes'.

 

[Walterp]

So is this the corbyn and labour party that have anned a debate on rexit so as to cover up there true wishlist (if they know it themselves) from their own members many of whom voted leave, how very communist of them, stop any dissent by refusing debate

There is an alternative view: if Labour's strategy is to wait for the Conservatives to self-destruct under the weight of the internal contradictions contained in Brexit, the best stance is to say, and do, as little as possible in the meantime.

That is what you are now seeing - it's very disciplined, which suggests that Labour is serious about wanting to regain power.

 

[JohnGalway]

Is it not a fair exchange for agricultural support?

I don't think it is to be honest. Too much is expected in return for "support" which is often inequitible (if that's a word) and twisted by politics within the industry. A farmer/land owner wouldn't get the same in return from the public.

 

[Walterp]

Ah well, the future holds no fear for me. I've farmed on a shoestring for 30 years, and lost my SFP in 2005.
Things can only get better as far as I'm concerned.

As a farmer with an owned farm, and capital in the bank, I suspect you may need to reflect further on that?

 

[Walterp]

I don't think it is to be honest. Too much is expected in return for "support" which is often inequitible (if that's a word) and twisted by politics within the industry. A farmer/land owner wouldn't get the same in return from the public.

Attitudes differ, I agree.

My point is twofold: firstly ag support is generous, so that access is a fair price to pay, within reason; secondly, it would cement farmer/public relations in a way that would be mutually-beneficial - many members of the public are very supportive of farming, and they should be encouraged to feel valued by farmers.

Just my view, I know most farmers don't look at it that way.

 

[Walterp]

That's my take on the situation , if they continue to be negative to our position now, they can swivel .

That's a fair number of misapprehensions in just one sentence:

1. Theresa May hasn't actually stated a new position;

2. but she has used her speech to jettison some old ones, such as 'no deal...' and the EEA;

3. and it wasn't addressed to the EU, but to the UK - almost the entire audience was either a Conservative or a UK Press reporter.

It's progress, Bob, but not as we know it...

 

[Pond digger]

Attitudes differ, I agree.

My point is twofold: firstly ag support is generous, so that access is a fair price to pay, within reason; secondly, it would cement farmer/public relations in a way that would be mutually-beneficial - many members of the public are very supportive of farming, and they should be encouraged to feel valued by farmers.

Just my view, I know most farmers don't look at it that way.

Public access = dog sh!t and litter. I'd have to manage without the support.