The NI/ROI Protocol

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
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I was always puzzled as to why the likes of the DUP were pro Brexit, this was always going to be very a huge gamble for the Union.

As long as it doesn't mean violence, that's the main thing, but it's pretty safe as untionsts are democratic and wouldn't use violence.
 
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JimAndy

Member
Location
portadown
maybe if MLA Poots and spend the last year setting up the necessary systems and testing them. instead of sitting with his fingers in his ears going "lalalalalalalala" . and only starting to do some work a few months ago because michael groves kick his ass up and down the school yard . we might have a working system
 

Ashtree

Member
The irony is, that the Protocol is there only because the DUP rejected every other proposal. Four and a half years of talks and negotiations, through which the DUP rejected every and any proposed solution.
Boris pulled the rug from under them, when he got his majority bin the Commons without them.
Quite frankly they are now stuck with it. I expect the EU will listen and extend the grace period. That’s about as good as it will get for DUP.
 

thewalrus

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
There was an element of unionism that thought brexit would put distance between Northern ireland and the republic. Some actual wanted a hard brexit to force some sort of border between the two.

It’s been obvious from day 1 that there’d be no border between the two and that only left option for one in the Irish Sea.
 

thewalrus

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
I was always puzzled as to why the likes of the DUP were pro Brexit, this was always going to be very a huge gamble for the Union.

As long as it doesn't mean violence, that's the main thing, but it's pretty safe as untionsts are democratic and wouldn't use violence.

I don’t think violence was ever going to happen regardless of any outcome, bar from a very small minority, there isn’t the support for it
 

Wellytrack

Member
Just quite what the DUP had thought was happening whilst Boris was slipping this through is beyond me. Sammy Wilson with his rudy face of rage whilst he was telling us the answer to empty shop shelves was to go to the chippy..

It’s beyond satire.
 

Joe

Member
Location
Carlow Ireland
It really feels like the beginning of the end of something.
Ni is a state created based on maintaining a majority for unionists, held in place by gerrymandering and plural voting to openly discriminate against non unionists based on religion. Lead to the darkest of outcomes that eventually lead to a compromise solution that DUP never bought into. You’d think this now is the demise of the DUP and major shift of their vote to UUP, Alliance and more hardliners to TUV.
SF will demand a border pole that really very few in south want without understanding impact of certain outcomes or prior discussions at least around what a potential new Ireland would look like.

Ulster stands at a crossroad, and this time hopefully the moderates and forward thinkers make their voices heard and get involved in discussions.
 

Ashtree

Member
Both the UUP and DUP supported a No vote in the 1975 referendum on the then EEC, as did PSF/PIRA, while the Alliance and SDLP and the Vanguard Unionist Party supported a Yes vote.

No today. No tomorrow. No forever.
How many times have the DUP bellowed NO, whilst offering no alternative.
Jeffry Donaldson was very calm and assured on RTE news this evening. Seemed quite like a man who could drive a bargain, whilst at same time recognising that bellowing NO, no longer cuts the mustard. He even went so far as to say that cutting off cooperation with the south on north south issues, was not a good idea, despite the usual suspects shouting for that to happen.
 

JimAndy

Member
Location
portadown
No today. No tomorrow. No forever.
How many times have the DUP bellowed NO, whilst offering no alternative.
Jeffry Donaldson was very calm and assured on RTE news this evening. Seemed quite like a man who could drive a bargain, whilst at same time recognising that bellowing NO, no longer cuts the mustard. He even went so far as to say that cutting off cooperation with the south on north south issues, was not a good idea, despite the usual suspects shouting for that to happen.

be carefully of wee jeffry as the minute you turn your back he have a knife in it
 

Mouser

Member
Location
near Belfast
It really feels like the beginning of the end of something.
Ni is a state created based on maintaining a majority for unionists, held in place by gerrymandering and plural voting to openly discriminate against non unionists based on religion. Lead to the darkest of outcomes that eventually lead to a compromise solution that DUP never bought into. You’d think this now is the demise of the DUP and major shift of their vote to UUP, Alliance and more hardliners to TUV.
SF will demand a border pole that really very few in south want without understanding impact of certain outcomes or prior discussions at least around what a potential new Ireland would look like.

Ulster stands at a crossroad, and this time hopefully the moderates and forward thinkers make their voices heard and get involved in discussions.
Actually the republic of Ireland is the state that was created based on a majority of nationalists. NI remained in uk/gb where all Ireland was for hundreds of years.
You'd be forgiven for thinking the opposite was true if listening to nationalist politicians.
 

Ashtree

Member
Actually the republic of Ireland is the state that was created based on a majority of nationalists. NI remained in uk/gb where all Ireland was for hundreds of years.
You'd be forgiven for thinking the opposite was true if listening to nationalist politicians.

Good man yourself. There’s a place for you in the assembly!
Meanwhile check out the Plantation of Ulster!
 

Wellytrack

Member
Actually the republic of Ireland is the state that was created based on a majority of nationalists. NI remained in uk/gb where all Ireland was for hundreds of years.
You'd be forgiven for thinking the opposite was true if listening to nationalist politicians.

Not exactly.

The treaty of ‘The Irish free state’ comprised 32 counties until 6 counties under the control of Unionists, opted out.

The Irish Free State, still existed within the British Empire similar to Canada.

The Parliament of Northern Ireland could, by presenting an address to the king, opt not to be included in the Free State, in which case a Boundary Commission would be established to determine where the boundary between them should lie.

Address made in Northern Ireland parliament on 7 December 1922 below.

MOST GRACIOUS SOVEREIGN, We, your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Senators and Commons of Northern Ireland in Parliament assembled, having learnt of the passing of the Irish Free State Constitution Act, 1922, being the Act of Parliament for the ratification of the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty between Great Britain and Ireland, do, by this humble Address, pray your Majesty that the powers of the Parliament and Government of the Irish Free State shall no longer extend to Northern Ireland.

Obviously not all in Republicanism were satisfied with this arrangement.

Michael Collins was largely responsible for including an reference to an oath of fidelity to the king, his heirs and successors in reference to the Kings role in the Treaty of The Irish free state.

This helped cause a divide in Irish Nationalism that continues to this day.

Michael Collins was assassinated on August 22nd 1922.
 

Farm buy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Good man yourself. There’s a place for you in the assembly!
Meanwhile check out the Plantation of Ulster!
History in schools here in the UK has always been thought from a different view point .
I like to choose Wikipedia to inform me on different issues now. It seems to be fairly even handed.It is obvious that the teaching of history has not actually been fact from others point of view so what might have been fact for you Ashtree is not always the way others see it.
 
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Wellytrack

Member
Good man yourself. There’s a place for you in the assembly!
Meanwhile check out the Plantation of Ulster!

Personally I don’t feel it’s right to throw all the woes of the country on those who’s ancestors may have been planters.

Not all of the reformed persuasion came as planters anyhow, in later times circa 1800’s many came as economic migrants and stayed, so too those who were garrisoned here or working within shipping.

After 200 years those people are as Irish or British as they choose to be and bare no responsibilities to the health or ill, the good or detriment of the Nation than any other now.
 

Farm buy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Well aware of the plantation thanks. Fact remains it was all under British rule from 1100 something and the Republic chose to leave while NI didn't.
It was after 1536 when British got to rule Ireland in full for the first time (wikipedia). While British ruled Ireland for 800 years+ there was was never peace as it was invaded originally and the Irish never accepted that. Wikipedia is a great source of unbiased information .
 
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Ashtree

Member
It was after 1536 when British got to rule Ireland in full for the first time (wikipedia). While British ruled or Ireland for 800 years+ there was was never peace as it was invaded originally and the Irish never accepted that. Wikipedia is a great source of unbiased information .

And then according to the great bible of Brexit, an evil empire to the south, took over the two islands GB and Ire, in 1973.
GB of course broke free again in 2016, and following a protracted session of peace talks, decided NI wasn’t worth the hassle anymore, so dumped back into the arms of the evil empire.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
Interestingly, the Celts arrived in Ireland and pushed the settled Britons north and east. So there's no point in talking about who should own what and who was here first. As it ever has been since the dawn of time, you have what you hold and successfully defend.

The first part in Joe's post about internal gerrymandering in Northern Ireland is mostly Billhooks. In large part, any effect was caused by the electoral system of local government throughout the UK at the time favouring rate payers. If it appeared to penalise a particular religious or ethnic group, that effect was merely coincidental. But it's always a nice one to use for political ends, and to poison and perpetuate the feeling of bitterness in each new Irish/catholic generation against their similarly ex-tenant Unionist neighbours.

No today. No tomorrow. No forever.
How many times have the DUP bellowed NO, whilst offering no alternative.
Jeffry Donaldson was very calm and assured on RTE news this evening. Seemed quite like a man who could drive a bargain, whilst at same time recognising that bellowing NO, no longer cuts the mustard. He even went so far as to say that cutting off cooperation with the south on north south issues, was not a good idea, despite the usual suspects shouting for that to happen.

Remember that Jeffrey isn't the bellowing NO type. He doesn't have that DUP history behind him.
 

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