The NI/ROI Protocol

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.
i hope they using their own money to fund this.
also why was it acceptable for years for us to have

to show ID before getting on a flight and ferry to the mainland (effectively putting passport control in the irish sea)

to have to have out machinery inspected and washed before we could import it

to have animals tested and checked before we could import them

to have our own independent civil services

a NHS that is a different model to the rest of the UK

our own driving jurisdiction, were you could be bad from driving in Great Britain but still drive here, and vice versa

a form of local government that is unacceptable in any other part of the UK


but now they complain that it unfair we treated different from the rest of the UK
Its all because you are still in the EU.
Bottom line.
 

Ashtree

Member
i hope they using their own money to fund this.
also why was it acceptable for years for us to have

to show ID before getting on a flight and ferry to the mainland (effectively putting passport control in the irish sea)

to have to have out machinery inspected and washed before we could import it

to have animals tested and checked before we could import them

to have our own independent civil services

a NHS that is a different model to the rest of the UK

our own driving jurisdiction, were you could be bad from driving in Great Britain but still drive here, and vice versa

a form of local government that is unacceptable in any other part of the UK


but now they complain that it unfair we treated different from the rest of the UK
And don’t forget, the DUP and unionists in general, have when the occasion suits, made strong representations to Westminster, that NI is different, is a place apart. Like when they wanted a different corporation tax. They wanted corporate tax policy like ROI, not like GB.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim

Discriminatory on Northern Ireland consumers, who did not vote for an Irish sea customs border. This is not the same thing @JimAndy as existing checks on livestock and devolution of tax law, which would not prohibit trade, consumer choice and access to services in the way this protocol does.
 

Wellytrack

Member
If no land border was acceptable, or no physical checks on goods or people were acceptable a customs border had to be somewhere.

Theresa was gouled out of it by the DUP then their misplaced confidence in their artificially elevated position let Boris pull a fast one on them.

As a comic book villain once said.

"Your victory has defeated you"
 

Ashtree

Member
But the majority of NI voters didn't vote for Brexit either, but it still happened, this is just a consequence.
It still amazes me that Arlene didn't see this coming
DUP saw a glorious opportunity to pee on the taigs and the ethnics, and were so blinded by the prospect, they couldn’t see the writing on the wall.
 

Thecub

Member
Don't think it's fair to say Arlene should have known what was going to happen as the most likely outcome in early December was projected to be no deal. I am beginning to think that would have been better for us in farming in many respects. I do agree we should have remained as the status quo is nearly always better than throwing the dice for an unknown outcome. We are still not offering constructive thinking on this which I had hoped was going to be the purpose of this thread.
 

Ashtree

Member

Discriminatory on Northern Ireland consumers, who did not vote for an Irish sea customs border. This is not the same thing @JimAndy as existing checks on livestock and devolution of tax law, which would not prohibit trade, consumer choice and access to services in the way this protocol does.
Leaving the EU was one thing. Leaving the SM and CU, was another level altogether, which was never going to do anything other than change consumer and indeed producer choice! The EU/SM/CU market apparatus was rejected by GB and the rest is history.
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
When you have everyone in Unionism from Lord Trimble to Jim Allister is up in arms about this and the response from moderate Nationalists - like Neil Richmond who tried to convince us he was so open to Unionists when he came up to watch the Twelfth in Belfast for 10 minutes - is to make snide remarks on Twitter you know how Unionism will be treated in the “new Ireland”.

Does anyone believe for a second that this would fly if EVERY Nationalist in Northern Ireland was opposed to it?

Does anyone believe that Nationalists would tolerate the 1998 Act being changed so as remove their ability to hold a veto on a vital point of importance?

Does anyone believe that Nationalism would tolerate the commitment in Belfast Agreement to a never ending cycle of referendums on Irish unity being removed?

Why should Unionists tolerate the Act of Union being messed with?

Why should Unionists tolerate their ability to have some say in the future of their country being removed?

Why should Unionists take any commitment made by any Nationalist - or any British government for that matter - remotely seriously?

from a political colleague
 

Wellytrack

Member
When you have everyone in Unionism from Lord Trimble to Jim Allister is up in arms about this and the response from moderate Nationalists - like Neil Richmond who tried to convince us he was so open to Unionists when he came up to watch the Twelfth in Belfast for 10 minutes - is to make snide remarks on Twitter you know how Unionism will be treated in the “new Ireland”.

Does anyone believe for a second that this would fly if EVERY Nationalist in Northern Ireland was opposed to it?

Does anyone believe that Nationalists would tolerate the 1998 Act being changed so as remove their ability to hold a veto on a vital point of importance?

Does anyone believe that Nationalism would tolerate the commitment in Belfast Agreement to a never ending cycle of referendums on Irish unity being removed?

Why should Unionists tolerate the Act of Union being messed with?

Why should Unionists tolerate their ability to have some say in the future of their country being removed?

Why should Unionists take any commitment made by any Nationalist - or any British government for that matter - remotely seriously?

from a political colleague
And it was Unionist's who overwhelmingly voted for Brexit.

But sure let's blame everyone else about how wrongly unionists are now being treated.
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
i hope they using their own money to fund this.
also why was it acceptable for years for us to have

to show ID before getting on a flight and ferry to the mainland (effectively putting passport control in the irish sea)

to have to have out machinery inspected and washed before we could import it

to have animals tested and checked before we could import them

to have our own independent civil services

a NHS that is a different model to the rest of the UK

our own driving jurisdiction, were you could be bad from driving in Great Britain but still drive here, and vice versa

a form of local government that is unacceptable in any other part of the UK


but now they complain that it unfair we treated different from the rest of the UK
A mixture of devolution been first pioneered in NI within the UK. So obviously there are some variances within the Kingdom on some others.

The ID requirement on flights and ferries is holdover from anti terror legislation dependent on level of threat from "dissidents" or so called "loyalists".
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
And it was Unionist's who overwhelmingly voted for Brexit.

But sure let's blame everyone else about how wrongly unionists are now being treated.
The point been we were told the Belfast Agreement is "sacred". Yet provisions within it or the related Anglo - Irish Treaty with interpretations favoured by unionists in a general sense are interpreted very loosely or ignored.
While the sole section dealing with demilitarisation of the international border to a level of a peaceful society is interpreted in a maximalist manner to that no infrastructure is acceptable on the border is permitted yet authorities on both sides regularly conduct various inspections at or near the border for variety of normal purposes ie immigration, normal law enforcement etc.
Basically it boils down to a situation where the provisions of the agreement where a maximalist interpretation of the elements favoured by nationalism in general, while the elements of the agreement favoured by unionism are interpreted in a very minimalist manner etc.
Elements of unionism may have made a tactical error backing Brexit, but that is choice for a democratic society.
153940600_922276615184687_5995302539216324350_n.jpg
 
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Wellytrack

Member
The point been we were told the Belfast Agreement is "sacred". Yet provisions within it or the related Anglo - Irish Treaty with interpretations favoured by unionists in a general sense are interpreted very loosely or ignored.
While the sole section dealing with demilitarisation of the international border to a level of a peaceful society is interpreted in a maximalist manner to that no infrastructure is acceptable on the border is permitted yet authorities on both sides regularly conduct various inspections at or near the border for variety of normal purposes ie immigration, normal law enforcement etc.
Basically it boils down to a situation where the provisions of the agreement where a maximalist interpretation of the elements favoured by nationalism in general, while the elements of the agreement favoured by unionism are interpreted in a very minimalist manner etc.
Elements of unionism may have made a tactical error backing Brexit, but that is choice for a democratic society.
View attachment 943349
Good points raised in that article.

However I do wish those who voted for Brexit would take at least some of the collective blame for the current situation. There was plenty of warning before the vote about the repercussions of a customs border appearing somewhere and all was dismissed as project fear.

Something that seems to be lost on Unionism is that the privately educated elite that make up the swingers and doers of the Tory party do not view Unionist representatives as British and Nationalist/Republicans as Irish, we are all paddy’s, paddy’s of various different tribes but still paddy’s.

Tribal Paddy’s are a problem, if an easy route exists to make the problem appear less difficult it will be taken. This is an undeniable blind spot that the DUP in particular seem to have.
 

Ashtree

Member
Good points raised in that article.

However I do wish those who voted for Brexit would take at least some of the collective blame for the current situation. There was plenty of warning before the vote about the repercussions of a customs border appearing somewhere and all was dismissed as project fear.

Something that seems to be lost on Unionism is that the privately educated elite that make up the swingers and doers of the Tory party do not view Unionist representatives as British and Nationalist/Republicans as Irish, we are all paddy’s, paddy’s of various different tribes but still paddy’s.

Tribal Paddy’s are a problem, if an easy route exists to make the problem appear less difficult it will be taken. This is an undeniable blind spot that the DUP in particular seem to have.
The “Irish Question”, the proverbial stone in the shoe of the English aristocracy and ruling classes for centuries.
Troublesome nationalists have been replaced with whinging unionists. Modern day English aristocrats and rulers have had enough. They have kicked the Ulster Unionists out the door, and slammed it behind them.
 
What specific non EU items cannot be gotten in NI that is causing the situation to be so unfair on the people there?

I'm interested because I've asked quite a few friends and family who live there and none of them have suggested that they are having any issues so far.
 

JimAndy

Member
Location
portadown
What specific non EU items cannot be gotten in NI that is causing the situation to be so unfair on the people there?

I'm interested because I've asked quite a few friends and family who live there and none of them have suggested that they are having any issues so far.
I've noticed a shortage of Flake 99 ice cream cones in the shops :)
 

AGCO reports sales increase of 43.5% compared to 2020 figures

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Written by Agriland Team from Agriland

The tractor manufacturer AGCO, which consists of brands such as Challenger, Fendt, GSI, Massey Ferguson and Valtra, reported its results for the second quarter ending June 30, 2021.

Net sales for the second quarter were approximately $2.9 billion, an increase of approximately 43.5% compared to the second quarter of 2020.

AEM

Reported net income was $3.73/share for the second quarter of 2021, and adjusted...
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