The NI/ROI Protocol

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
These things must be kept firmly in context. It's only right that a judgement of disproportionate force was delivered. Governments and their security forces should of course be subject to scrutiny. It's also important for it to be said that the victims were undeserving of death. In the absence of compelling evidence as to their involvement in paramilitary activity of immediate threat to the soldiers, then the law must find them innocent.

However, the context is that there was a very violent situation, perpetrated by rioters and paramilitaries. The handling by forces clearly delivered a very poor result. In this case, there were no army casualties. The IRA missed. If they hadn't missed, would the judgement against the army have been less confident I wonder? Either way, it wouldn't have changed much of the army response on the day. The driving reason behind the heavy response was the real threat the army perceived against itself. And this, as was seen also with the bloody Sunday incident, is the reason why it's not a good idea to involve army in violent public order situations. Army are presumably trained to meet force with greater force, and to protect their squad at all costs. To return fire and ask questions later. This works well in a war zone, which ballymurphy was not. They were asked to take gunfire and petrol bombs in a housing estate, and people are surprised that it didn't end well?
 

Farm buy

Member
Livestock Farmer
These things must be kept firmly in context. It's only right that a judgement of disproportionate force was delivered. Governments and their security forces should of course be subject to scrutiny. It's also important for it to be said that the victims were undeserving of death. In the absence of compelling evidence as to their involvement in paramilitary activity of immediate threat to the soldiers, then the law must find them innocent.

However, the context is that there was a very violent situation, perpetrated by rioters and paramilitaries. The handling by forces clearly delivered a very poor result. In this case, there were no army casualties. The IRA missed. If they hadn't missed, would the judgement against the army have been less confident I wonder? Either way, it wouldn't have changed much of the army response on the day. The driving reason behind the heavy response was the real threat the army perceived against itself. And this, as was seen also with the bloody Sunday incident, is the reason why it's not a good idea to involve army in violent public order situations. Army are presumably trained to meet force with greater force, and to protect their squad at all costs. To return fire and ask questions later. This works well in a war zone, which ballymurphy was not. They were asked to take gunfire and petrol bombs in a housing estate, and people are surprised that it didn't end well?
Amateur performance here by the army and obviously poor leadership. One unarmed person maybe but 10 people ???. Don't know why it took 50 yrs but delaying situation like this is always a good motivator for bringing people from reasonable to unreasonable.
 

Ashtree

Member

Of course the officer is 100% correct. Investigation at this juncture is pretty much futile and impossible. End of.
It was important however to set it on the record that innocent people killed on that day, were INNOCENT.
Whether the commanding officer on that day, who lied through his teeth after the event should be held to account in some way is another matter?
 

JimAndy

Member
Location
portadown
i don't know why soldiers take part in these sham inquests, and yes they are sham for like the Bloody Sunday inquest had there been even the very slights that some of the were not innocent , the family's would have not accepted the results and demanded a new inquest till they got the result they wanted.

after seeing what happened to the soldiers in the Bloody sunday inquest. i would refuse to go to it, and if i was forced to go, my number one answer would be. "sorry i don't remember"
 

Farm buy

Member
Livestock Farmer
i don't know why soldiers take part in these sham inquests, and yes they are sham for like the Bloody Sunday inquest had there been even the very slights that some of the were not innocent , the family's would have not accepted the results and demanded a new inquest till they got the result they wanted.

after seeing what happened to the soldiers in the Bloody sunday inquest. i would refuse to go to it, and if i was forced to go, my number one answer would be. "sorry i don't remember"
Eventhough the shootings were shameful when we look back, those young lads were under orders and thats the way the army works. I dont think any one of them really shot anyone without orders.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
It's so hard to say what happened. One chap, for example, was on a tractor clearing a roadblock when he was petrol bombed twice. He fired believing his life was in danger. Ashtree calls it murder. I imagine that's when you plan in advance to target someone with death, and succeed. That's what the IRA and the UVF did. I don't believe that's what the army was about.

It's a good thing that there's some closure for the families. The problem is that, if it's to be of benefit to society, the IRA and the UVF also would need to come forward and put their members A, B and C on the witness stand to explain why it was they found themselves with no rational alternative at that time but to deliberately scheme to plant a bomb under a prison officers car, or drag a farmer and part time UDR out of his house and tell him to kneel before shooting him in the head etc. There's a lot to get through. Don't be shy now, form an orderly queue.
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
So the UK has a Foreign Secretary who didn't know that the U.K. is a group of islands and Dover is a port, a Fisheries Minister who didn't read the fisheries part of the Brexit deal before she voted to implement it and a chief negotiator who didnt know that agreeing to a border in the Irish Sea meant that it would end up with a border in the Irish Sea
 

Farm buy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Breaking news: Frost finds water is wet!
I think the problem that the UK find itself in has manifested itself prior to this episode. The people that have been doing the discussions in Eu for the Uk are poor at their jobs and did not really know how to do a deal and this has been going on for years. Blaming the Eu was the usual response when the deal was poor but now that the Eu is gone who is to blame. Frost is unelected and is not too worried about outcome even though I think he is one of the best that has been around for a few years, but thats not saying much.
 
Someone needs to tell this chick that there's a lot more petty things than that which happened a lot longer ago that are at the front of people's tiny minds.
Screenshot_20210521-193735_Facebook.jpg
 

JimAndy

Member
Location
portadown
I can't understand this "justice for noah" campaign. while it is tragic that a child died, they seem intent on blaming it on the British/loyalist people, from such things as it was the uvf injecting him with drugs, to a PSNI pedo ring
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
I can't understand this "justice for noah" campaign. while it is tragic that a child died, they seem intent on blaming it on the British/loyalist people, from such things as it was the uvf injecting him with drugs, to a PSNI pedo ring
Get yer tin hat on.
 
I can't understand this "justice for noah" campaign. while it is tragic that a child died, they seem intent on blaming it on the British/loyalist people, from such things as it was the uvf injecting him with drugs, to a PSNI pedo ring
I hadn't heard that, but I guess anythings possible, the older I get the less I find myself being shocked by what I hear.

There are always rumours, but social media makes them more widespread.
 
Heard Eddie Poots on with Marr this morning, most of what he said was just non commital benign talk in various shades of grey and despite being a slightly odd looking dude he came across not too bad.

Is it just me or is it just about impossible to take seriously a man who is looney enough to believe the world is 6000 years old.
 

Update on the Sustainable Farming Incentive pilot

  • 68
  • 0
Update on the Sustainable Farming Incentive pilot

Written by Lisa Applin

Webp.net-resizeimage-3.jpg


In July, we opened the applications window for farmers to join our Sustainable Farming Incentive pilot.

The Sustainable Farming Incentive is 1 of the 3 new environmental land management schemes. It sits alongside the future Local Nature Recovery and Landscape Recovery schemes.

Through the Sustainable Farming Incentive, farmers will be paid for environmentally sustainable actions – ones that are simple to do and do not require previous agri-environment scheme experience.

We are piloting the scheme to...
Top