The NI/ROI Protocol

le bon paysan

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Livestock Farmer
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Limousin, France
Same story from the perspective of the Telegraph
Lord Frost warns UK cannot be subordinate to EU after Brexit
Brexit minister says that tensions over Northern Ireland Protocol could destroy UK-EU relationship
By James Crisp, Europe Editor4 September 2021 • 3:08pm
Lord Frost called for an overhaul of the Northern Ireland Protocol in July. Discussions with Brussels are expected to resume next week.
Lord Frost said the relationship with the EU cannot be one of 'subordination' as he warned conflict over the Northern Ireland Protocol risked creating 'cold mistrust' between Britain and Brussels.
He demanded that Brussels renegotiate the Protocol and agree to “significant and substantial” changes to the treaty, which created a customs border between Britain and Northern Ireland.
Lord Frost insisted Britain did not plan to “sweep away” the whole agreement at the British-Irish Association conference in Oxford.
He warned that any solutions could not involve EU law holding sway on British territory.
The Brexit Minister denied the government’s criticism of the treaty was “EU-bashing” designed to rally domestic support on Saturday.
He blamed the incorrect “balance” in the protocol for the poor and tense relations between the UK and EU since Brexit took legal effect on January 1.
Lord Frost said, “The current tension in the relationship with the EU ultimately in my view has its fons et origo in the disagreements around the Protocol. Those are genuine substantive disagreements based on real things, and reflecting genuine concerns in Northern Ireland.”
"I worry this process is capable of generating a sort of cold mistrust between us and the EU which could spread across the relationship. It’s holding back the potential for a new era of cooperation between like-minded states in a world which needs us to work together effectively," he said.
The protocol prevents a hard Irish border by keeping Northern Ireland part of the EU’s single market. The UK argues that checks on British goods going to Northern Ireland to ensure they meet EU rules are too cumbersome and are having a chilling effect on trade.
Lord Frost accused the EU of putting the integrity of the Single Market ahead of the protocol’s other goals, such as the peace process.
He said it was unacceptable for the UK to simply copy the EU’s rules to avoid the need for as many customs checks.
He said, "The current governance arrangements have to evolve to reflect the reality that this is an agreement between two sovereign and autonomous entities, not a relationship of subordination or one where one party’s rules have to be applied mechanically by the other.”
“You should be in no doubt about the centrality of this problem to our politics and to this Government. The issue needs to be fixed and we are determined to fix it,” he said.
Resolving the problems with the protocol would improve relations between Brussels, London and Dublin, he said.
He said, “Brexit is not a thing in itself. It is not a choice to live in permanent confrontation with our friends and neighbours.”
He said, “Rather it is a first stage, a necessary gateway through which this country had to pass in order to give us freedom [...] and to rebuild the country from some of the distortions created by EU membership."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../lord-frost-warns-uk.../
And water is wet!
 

Ashtree

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The Agrarian

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Location
Co Antrim
Perhaps that's because Gerry might be involved in orchestrating said civil unrest through his terrorist organisation (which he naturally claims he has never been a member of 🤥). Meanwhile Trimble (and his party) has always campaigned against violence. So yes, they are different things.
 

Ashtree

Member
Perhaps that's because Gerry might be involved in orchestrating said civil unrest through his terrorist organisation (which he naturally claims he has never been a member of 🤥). Meanwhile Trimble (and his party) has always campaigned against violence. So yes, they are different things.
So put yourself in British PM’s shoes. Dammed if you do, and dammed if you don’t. NI is a failed entity, with two tribes, one of whom will kick up, when one or other of the borders is chosen.
PM will probably calculate (has already done so), that sea border is the most manageable, as the torturous negotiations with EU are done and dusted. It also has the invaluable benefit of keeping USA onside.
Looks like a done and dusted deal to me, with nothing to be done other than tinker at the edges and apply the core detail of it.
Trimble I guess has effectively failed in his legal challenge, and so has written a “strongly worded” letter to Joe Biden, who himself has more important fires raging all around him. He gets his name in headlines for a day, and then it’s back to his study.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
So put yourself in British PM’s shoes. Dammed if you do, and dammed if you don’t. NI is a failed entity, with two tribes, one of whom will kick up, when one or other of the borders is chosen.
PM will probably calculate (has already done so), that sea border is the most manageable, as the torturous negotiations with EU are done and dusted. It also has the invaluable benefit of keeping USA onside.
Looks like a done and dusted deal to me, with nothing to be done other than tinker at the edges and apply the core detail of it.
Trimble I guess has effectively failed in his legal challenge, and so has written a “strongly worded” letter to Joe Biden, who himself has more important fires raging all around him. He gets his name in headlines for a day, and then it’s back to his study.

No, Northern Ireland is not a failed entity, any more than the Republic is.

A probable yes to the rest of it.
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
Perhaps that's because Gerry might be involved in orchestrating said civil unrest through his terrorist organisation (which he naturally claims he has never been a member of 🤥). Meanwhile Trimble (and his party) has always campaigned against violence. So yes, they are different things.
The PSNI as of Spring/Summer 2021 this still agree with the assessment that " the PIRA Army Council was still overseeing both Sinn Fein and the remaining structures of the terror organisation with an “over arching strategy”.".
The legal challenge is apparently going to the Supreme Court but very quiet on any developments to it.
DUP apparently going to make a statement this week regarding their latest position on the protocol.
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer

JimAndy

Member
Mixed Farmer
so wee jeffery is going to collapse Stormont, if people don't fix his problems with the protocol (i notice he offering no workable solutions)

if he does collapse Stormont, is there any point having fresh elections, as the protocol will still be infect and the DuP will refuse to go back into government (unless the do a massive humiliating climbdown )

also given the that westminster seem to give SF what they want, could we see joint authority coming to N.I. as the price the english are will to pay to keep SF on board
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
so wee jeffery is going to collapse Stormont, if people don't fix his problems with the protocol (i notice he offering no workable solutions)

if he does collapse Stormont, is there any point having fresh elections, as the protocol will still be infect and the DuP will refuse to go back into government (unless the do a massive humiliating climbdown )

also given the that westminster seem to give SF what they want, could we see joint authority coming to N.I. as the price the english are will to pay to keep SF on board
Poll must have spooked him
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
so wee jeffery is going to collapse Stormont, if people don't fix his problems with the protocol (i notice he offering no workable solutions)

if he does collapse Stormont, is there any point having fresh elections, as the protocol will still be infect and the DuP will refuse to go back into government (unless the do a massive humiliating climbdown )

also given the that westminster seem to give SF what they want, could we see joint authority coming to N.I. as the price the english are will to pay to keep SF on board

You are taking for granted that the DUP would come out of an election as the biggest unionist party.

If it's the UUP, then stormont is up again.
 

Ashtree

Member
Would be interesting to see if there's a tactical vote by alliance voters see the UUP topple DUP.
Isn’t that the key! The current UUP leadership, and Swann‘s performance in the pandemic, does make them proper government material, and not in any real way, unacceptable to the middle ground non unionist voter.
That said, the wind is with Alliance and hopefully also with the SDLP. Ideally, both DUP and SF would lose seats, to the UUP, Alliance, SDLP and others.
Will TUV gain?

Down here, FF are in real trouble. Unless they dust down their old “Republican” suit of armour, and go bull headed after the SF base, they are in danger of disappearing. I’m hopeful they will adopt that strategy, as the best hope to deliver a set back to SF and save themselves from oblivion.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
It would be wonderful to see the SDLP crack Sinn Feins hold on electoral power. It's just a pity IMO that it's Colm Eastwood in charge. To me he doesn't sound like he would appeal to moderate nationalists. He shouts, and points, and rants about 'the British' etc. in ways that were well beneath John Hume, and Mark Durkan. In some ways he can sound a little bit like Jim Alister. And it's in aid of puffing up his chest so he can sound as tough as Sinn Fein. I really have little respect for his leadership.
 

Ashtree

Member
It would be wonderful to see the SDLP crack Sinn Feins hold on electoral power. It's just a pity IMO that it's Colm Eastwood in charge. To me he doesn't sound like he would appeal to moderate nationalists. He shouts, and points, and rants about 'the British' etc. in ways that were well beneath John Hume, and Mark Durkan. In some ways he can sound a little bit like Jim Alister. And it's in aid of puffing up his chest so he can sound as tough as Sinn Fein. I really have little respect for his leadership.

But isn’t Eastwood‘s challenge, to poach SF voters. He has to unfortunately “lower” his preferred standards to pick up a bit of that constituency.
Jeffery has now a bit of a similar problem. He‘s not really the ranting type, but the ranting Allister has now to be contained. Needs must.

I feel the same about FF in south. They will have to get street wise and dirty to stop the rot to SF. Taoiseach M Martin, isn’t the type. He‘s a Jeffry type. Soft spoken and diplomatic. He either has to step aside or grow a big dirty pair…..
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
The Provisionals do seem to have "problems" in Londonderry, given the recent replacement of two MLAs with relatively unknown figures.
There was an interesting analysis in 2018 suggesting that the Alliance would actually take seats of both SF and the SDLP.

I assume Covney will remain unscathed/escape serious sanction over this Zappone controversy
 

Ashtree

Member
The Provisionals do seem to have "problems" in Londonderry, given the recent replacement of two MLAs with relatively unknown figures.
There was an interesting analysis in 2018 suggesting that the Alliance would actually take seats of both SF and the SDLP.

I assume Covney will remain unscathed/escape serious sanction over this Zappone controversy

Covney is blueshirt royalty. He is safe from this mess. He actually won the popular rank and file vote for leader of FG. Leo swung the gig, at the parliamentary party vote mechanism. Leo would like nothing more than to get rid of him completely, but it won’t happen.
 

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