The NI/ROI Protocol

Thecub

Member
Not sure they were ever happy with it, but either way that's not the point really. A workable solution is required to stop harming our economy. Ordering parts for machines take an absolute age for them to arrive. As for the likes of Amazon prime another joke if you live in NI. Not to mention some people on the mainland don't want to deal with us as they deem it too much trouble etc
 

Wellytrack

Member
Not sure they were ever happy with it, but either way that's not the point really. A workable solution is required to stop harming our economy. Ordering parts for machines take an absolute age for them to arrive. As for the likes of Amazon prime another joke if you live in NI. Not to mention some people on the mainland don't want to deal with us as they deem it too much trouble etc
Agreed.

I too want to see the situation rectified but look who has steered us to this impasse.

I’m looking forward to Northern Ireland being in a position of some advantage due to the all Ireland trading arrangement but I would be reluctant to let the architects of our problems off the hook to somehow spin this into a “look at dem wans, not us” piece of baiting at the next reshuffle in Stormont.
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
TUV leader writes to Attorney General on Protocol
TUV leader Jim Allister has written to the acting Attorney General in Northern Ireland challenging her to declare herself on key issues arising from the Protocol.
Commenting Jim Allister said,

“I believe the people of Northern Ireland are entitled to know the considered opinion of the Chief Law Officer on matters of great significance for our constitutional position. Accordingly, I have posed relevant questions to her, including matters arising from Article 6 of the Act of Union. Below is the text of my letter.”
Letter to Attorney General
Dear Attorney,
I wish to know and understand how far you have considered the constitutional implications of the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol.
By leaving Northern Ireland, while the rest of the U.K. exits,
  • in the EU’s single market for goods,
  • subject to its Custom’s Code,
  • under its VAT regime,
  • ruled by all the EU laws which govern these areas – laws which we did not make and cannot change and which number hundreds,
  • and subject to the supervision of the European Court of Justice
surely, a transfer of sovereignty has occurred. Until now an identical sovereignty relationship existed for Northern Ireland with the EU as existed for GB, because we were legally regarded as a single member state.
Now, under the Protocol, the EU retains sovereignty/control over all the above matters – which shape our economic destiny – while GB has fully left the EU.
Because of this significant transfer of sovereignty and divergence from the one nation status I contend that constitutional change has been wrought. Do you agree?
Article 6 of the Act of Union also needs to be considered. Surely, it has been disrespected to a significant degree? Its promise of nationwide equality in trade has been rendered nugatory.
What is your conclusion on this matter?
Which brings me to the Belfast Agreement. Isn’t it supposed to provide a protection against constitutional change without the consent of the people of Northern Ireland?
In your view under the Belfast Agreement does the consent principle only apply to the ultimate and final handover, not the stepping stone losses of British sovereignty.
As Attorney General for Northern Ireland I believe it is important to know your view on these critical matters. I therefore look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely,
Jim Allister
TUV leader writes to Attorney General on Protocol | tuv.org.uk
 

Farm buy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Michael Machiavelli Gove, wants not to bin the protocol, but to “refine” it! This rusty nail, will stay stuck and festering in the collective arse of the DUP for eternity. Any notion that the Tory’s give a sh!t, based on a very poorly supported petition, is entirely misplaced.
How come people expect to have the same access to the organisation they left. What level of intellegince do one need to know that if you get out of something moving along you will be left there waiting for the next lift to take you. It is so childish and immature to be expecting the eu to accept goods from a now third country, The Gov had promised people bigger and better trade, that the world was waiting to do trades with UK. Why be crying at the door of the eu now if the other is available
 
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Ashtree

Member
TUV leader writes to Attorney General on Protocol
TUV leader Jim Allister has written to the acting Attorney General in Northern Ireland challenging her to declare herself on key issues arising from the Protocol.
Commenting Jim Allister said,

“I believe the people of Northern Ireland are entitled to know the considered opinion of the Chief Law Officer on matters of great significance for our constitutional position. Accordingly, I have posed relevant questions to her, including matters arising from Article 6 of the Act of Union. Below is the text of my letter.”
Letter to Attorney General
Dear Attorney,
I wish to know and understand how far you have considered the constitutional implications of the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol.
By leaving Northern Ireland, while the rest of the U.K. exits,
  • in the EU’s single market for goods,
  • subject to its Custom’s Code,
  • under its VAT regime,
  • ruled by all the EU laws which govern these areas – laws which we did not make and cannot change and which number hundreds,
  • and subject to the supervision of the European Court of Justice
surely, a transfer of sovereignty has occurred. Until now an identical sovereignty relationship existed for Northern Ireland with the EU as existed for GB, because we were legally regarded as a single member state.
Now, under the Protocol, the EU retains sovereignty/control over all the above matters – which shape our economic destiny – while GB has fully left the EU.
Because of this significant transfer of sovereignty and divergence from the one nation status I contend that constitutional change has been wrought. Do you agree?
Article 6 of the Act of Union also needs to be considered. Surely, it has been disrespected to a significant degree? Its promise of nationwide equality in trade has been rendered nugatory.
What is your conclusion on this matter?
Which brings me to the Belfast Agreement. Isn’t it supposed to provide a protection against constitutional change without the consent of the people of Northern Ireland?
In your view under the Belfast Agreement does the consent principle only apply to the ultimate and final handover, not the stepping stone losses of British sovereignty.
As Attorney General for Northern Ireland I believe it is important to know your view on these critical matters. I therefore look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely,
Jim Allister
TUV leader writes to Attorney General on Protocol | tuv.org.uk
Reminds me of all those letters written by David Trimble, pointing to all sorts of technical illegalities in various aspects of the withdrawal agreement. He was quite chuffed with himself as I recall, and genuinely expected the waters to rise up and submerge the whole thing. Came to nothing!

Now if Trimble couldn’t make a case, I doubt the redoubtable Jim Allister can make it. Bless him!
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
So, a question.
If Boris invokes article 16 ( as so many seem to be calling for) doesn't this give the EU the block on vaccines crossing the border( as so many were howling about)?
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
How come people expect to have the same access to the organisation they left. What level of intellegince do one need to know that if you get out of something moving along you will be left there waiting for the next lift to take you. It is so childish and immature to be expecting the eu to accept goods from a now third country, The Gov had promised people bigger and better trade, that the world was waiting to do trades with UK. Why be crying at the door of the eu now if the other is available
Yes, and reading that article/ page to the end , what a fudge up! And how many had forgotten that the EU haven't ratified this deal yet.
After the howls of outrage heaped on the EU for threatening what the untrustworthy Boris had threatened,and is considering now, what will happen if the EU say ' you know, they're just more hassle than they're worth ' and don't ratify the deal and tell you to Foxtrot Oscar until there's someone sensible in charge!
 
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Thecub

Member
Everybody seems to be grinding their particular axe. I have read Jim Alister's peace and if the legal approach works that will be great. We just need a better solution than we currently have.
 

Ashtree

Member
So, a question.
If Boris invokes article 16 ( as so many seem to be calling for) doesn't this give the EU the block on vaccines crossing the border( as so many were howling about)?
Boris invoking article 16, means one hour later his secretary says to him “there’s a man by the name of Biden on the line”! Cue a U Turn, equivalent to Ursula’s U Turn, only faster, harder and sharper. More than a hundred years after the Irish pulled to rug from under the empire, they are still causing endless trouble! Damn nuisance I say, damn nuisance!
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Boris invoking article 16, means one hour later his secretary says to him “there’s a man by the name of Biden on the line”! Cue a U Turn, equivalent to Ursula’s U Turn, only faster, harder and sharper. More than a hundred years after the Irish pulled to rug from under the empire, they are still causing endless trouble! Damn nuisance I say, damn nuisance!
Yes they are, don't know what they want but will fight like mad to get it
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer

Good Friday Agreement co-architect David Trimble says Irish Sea Border ‘rips up’ accord – and proposes alternative
The Government’s attempt to keep the Irish Sea border in place but mitigate its worst aspects is unacceptable, Conservative peer Lord Trimble has said.
The former Ulster Unionist leader, who was a key architect of the 1998 Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement, said that “the astonishing and disturbing fact is that the Withdrawal Agreement and, in particular, the Protocol clearly rips the Good Friday Agreement apart.”

After the government initially denied that there was any Irish Sea border at all, and then tried to dismiss issues with the frontier as “teething problems”, last week Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove accepted that there were serious structural problems with the arrangements.

However, the senior Tory insisted that they could be resolved without ditching the Northern Ireland Protocol, which creates that border.
Lord Trimble, who in an interview with the News Letter prior to the EU referendum set out his firm support for Brexit, said that “all the tinkering around the edges cannot undo the fundamental damage that the Withdrawal Agreement and the protocol will cause”.

Writing in the forward to the pro-Brexit think tank the Centre for Brexit Policy’s proposals to remove the current arrangements and replace them with an alternative previously rejected by the EU, Lord Trimble said: “The system requires each side to rely on the other to enforce their rules – not on border checks.”

He went on: “Since, under the protocol, the laws governing 60 per cent of economic activity in Northern Ireland would no longer be made at Westminster or by the devolved Assembly, but by an outside law-making body, the EU, and those laws would be subject to interpretation by a non-UK court, clearly the constitutional position of Northern Ireland would be changed without the consent of the people of Northern Ireland as required by the Good Friday Agreement.
“Furthermore, there is no way in which the people affected by those decisions would even have a say in the making or application of them.”

Referring to the nature of the new border, he said: “The one thing that is clear is – given the size and cost of the posts being planned – the scale of checks envisaged is enormous. For example, the 44,000 square metres, £15m post at Larne in County Antrim does not indicate minimal checks.”

Former Secretary of State Owen Paterson and the DUP’s Westminster chief whip, Sammy Wilson, are among the Brexiteers involved with the group which is close to the right wing Tory ERG group.

Lord Trimble said that the mutual enforcement idea was a far better alternative to the current “half-baked” arrangements.

He said: “The system requires each side to rely on the other to enforce their rules – not on border checks...this is self-policing – it ensures that enforcement effort is focused on those issues that arise in the destination jurisdiction and is also pointed at the exporter as the source of the problem, rather than at everyone in a border control structure.

“Severe penalties would increase the effectiveness of the regime by acting as a deterrent.”

How alternative border proposal would operate

The Centre for Brexit Policy paper endorsed by Lord Trimble resurrects an old idea which had been raised by some Brexiteers when Theresa May was Prime Minister but which they believe is now relevant because people can see the problems with the Irish Sea border.

The paper proposes that ‘mutual enforcement’ by the UK and the EU of the other’s rules and standards, something the report’s authors argued is a “robust and viable” alternative to the Irish Sea border.

The report said: “Even at this late stage, Mutual Enforcement provides a better solution than the current flawed concept, which is still far from being implemented and ultimately will prove impossible to implement. Mutual Enforcement can be put in place quickly and yields a robust, long-term, viable solution.”

The proposal for mutual enforcement would mean no border anywhere, the report said, but would not rely on technology in the way that another Brexiteer proposal, from Shanker Singham, had suggested.

Under the proposal - and unlike the protocol – the UK and EU could diverge in their rules without creating a hard Irish or Irish Sea border, the authors said. That would be achieved by legislation in each jurisdiction which would allow UK regulations to be enforced in the EU and EU regulations to be enforced in the UK.

That would mean that if a sofa in Belfast stuffed with foam which did not meet EU fire safety standards was then exported for sale in Dublin, no one would stop it at the border.

However, it would be an offence for it to be sold in the Republic. Either the Irish authorities or the UK authorities could then prosecute the Belfast exporter.

The fact that in many areas it is likely that there will be no divergence in EU and UK rules, most items will not face any checks and the report’s authors argue that it will be a far less onerous way of managing the situation.

The scenario would not do away with customs declarations, but would move those to north-south - and without physical checks - rather than within the UK, as at present.
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
Michael Gove writes whining letter to the European Commission, we don't like the deal we signed, we didn't know you meant it and the Protocol needs extending , you have to do what we want! (Stamps foot)
Maros Šefčovič stretches, sighs, picks up pen...
 
I guess if the current situation means the British Government avoids being seen to do a complete 180 on a deal they've only just done, it suits ROI/EU and the taigs in the North are happy to tolerate the inconvenience, then it's maybe going to difficult to change.

The loyalists/Unionists may have to start to use threats of violence and some intimidation in order for them to be listened to.
 

Ashtree

Member
Michael Gove writes whining letter to the European Commission, we don't like the deal we signed, we didn't know you meant it and the Protocol needs extending , you have to do what we want! (Stamps foot)
Maros Šefčovič stretches, sighs, picks up pen...
Deary, deary me. That letter to Mr. Gove, reminds me of a letter written by my old schoolteacher to my parents, when I decided to mitch off school, to attend the show and sale at the cattle mart.
Of course that in itself, carried minimum sanction, but the interrogation which inevitably followed, unearthed numerous other misdemeanours which had previously gone unnoticed. It got tricky for a while.
I rather suspect, Mr. Gove and various other underlings, will have Eurocrats buzzing in their ears for quite some time to come.
And here’s the thing, somebody mentioned “sovereignty”.....
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
The missus has tried to get numerous things delivered from the mainland since 1st January. To date hasn't been successful with any of them. The latest is a sofa. Having received one from Mayfair in September, and having been told last month that they would no longer deliver to our postcode, she sourced one from another website which agreed to deliver. Email this morning to say they can't find a courier to do it, and have cancelled the order.

It's not all food, seeds and plants. It appears to be everything she tries to order. To say she is bouncing mad would be an understatement.
 

Early moves to target wild oats

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Growers and agronomists now face the dilemma of an early application to remove competition from emerged wild oats, or holding off to allow more weeds to germinate.

Syngenta grassweeds technical manager, Georgina Wood, urges Axial Pro treatment as soon as conditions allow, once weeds are actively growing.

“That offers the chance to control wild oats more cost effectively at lower rates, whilst there is still the flexibility to tailor application rates up to 0.82 l/ha for larger or over wintered weeds and difficult situations.

“The variability of crops and situations this season means decisions for appropriate Axial Pro rates and application techniques will need to be made on a field-by-field basis,” she advised.

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Miss Wood urges...
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