The reality of BREXIT.

[Martin Holden]

EU gives preferential treatment to all members. Its a protection racket.

It certainly is but few seem to know it! The supermarkets are driven by profit generation from high turnover and loyalty from its customers. They don’t give a fudge about where it comes from (some do, I know) as long as their margin increases. The main supermarkets have too big a monopoly on the food market, but I don’t know how you change that unless the NFU supported by their members and some heavy investors start up a new chain - maybe called “British is Best”

 

[roscoe erf]

@JP1 move this to where it belongs

 

[David.]

I'm more concerned that you can probably buy British roasting joints from butchery counter for £6/kg and mince it at home. Why would you pay the same for Polish cow beef?

 

[Highland Mule]

Oh dear the first slag off post. Shame on you.

SS

Come on, you’ve brought it on yourself.

it would seem the polish meat proesser workers are braver

Or perhaps the risks they face are different? To suggest it’s a matter of bravery is plain stupid and I must say expected more from you.

 

[bitwrx]

Are you certain that the UK has the highest standards? Or is it that "The UK has the highest standards" gets shouted so often you've become to believe it?

"Highest standards" is subjective, particularly in relation to animal welfare. What is less subjective is the cost of complying with regulations, which may reduce productivity and/or increase overheads.

I know that for pigs, some Scandinavian countries impose production methods which are intended to improve animal welfare and definitely do increase cost of production in those countries. So no, the UK doesn't have the highest most expensive standards in the world.

A good example of the subjectivity of high animal welfare standards is the whole farrowing crate debate. Farrowing crates maximise piglet survival rates (ensuring the greatest practicable freedom from pain and injury for the piglets). However, they are often seen as low welfare for the sow (preventing her from exhibiting natural behaviours like nest-building and moving about freely). By contrast, outdoor farrowing offers the sow much greater chance to exhibit natural behaviour, but at the expense of the piglets' freedom from pain and injury (as borne out by mortality figures).

If farrowing crates were to be banned in this country, as they already are in some of our near-neighbours, would pig welfare have improved or not?

 

[kiwi pom]

View attachment 868801
In Sainsburys right now. Free trade and all that.

SS

There has already been two threads on this. The supermarket claim they ordered extra from their supplier ABP who claim they sent the Polish beef as that's all they could get on the day. They're probably lying but business is business and UK farmers have no problem hiring cheaper polish staff.
The supermarket went on to say they would go back to only supplying British AND Irish beef when demand returns to normal. No one seems to be bothered that Ireland is also not British.
One of the previous threads had a table that showed the percentage of British Beef and Lamb sold in UK supermarkets. I have to say I thought it looked good (unless I read it wrong) many being 100% British.
I'm not sure what you expect though, it seems to me as British Beef producers you have allowed a foreign owned company to supply the supermarkets, where's the British competition?

 

[suffolksmallholder]

Come on, you’ve brought it on yourself.



Or perhaps the risks they face are different? To suggest it’s a matter of bravery is plain stupid and I must say expected more from you.

I'm only trying to poke our producers to ensure 'their' produce is on this supermarket shelf, not something from 1000 miles away! If it's on the local shelf it will be bought and if it's tasty it will be sought. If it isn't there at all then it's your loss not mine as I'm the final person, the buyer. It's that simple! Get me and 1000 others to repeat my purchase and you've created a 'Demand'.
This will happen more and more. Do we really want to have stuff from the USA with their low grade standards offered on our shelves?
Perhaps this Polish mince is top quality? If it is you are then a double loser as If I buy it and it really is tasty then I'll seek it out next time......whose the loser then.....?
OK I'm one of these horrendous, awful, diseased, should-be-shot, remainers but with X6 young, well educated (all 6 have university degrees), international children, I listen to their jugement and remain convinced irrespective of the current situation in that we need to fight our very own corner or loose out as in this situation. Insidious it is and UK farmers will always be the losers as the markets will always go for 'cheap' as this sells. Back to you and I'll ask what you produce?

SS

 

[NZDan]

I'm hoping! But I'm faithful too and please if you can disprove the fact I'm all ears. In reality the UK does have high standards.

SS

Yes it does have high standards. But from what I've seen in a number of countries, I'm not sure it is any better than most other countries.

 

[kiwi pom]

"Highest standards" is subjective, particularly in relation to animal welfare. What is less subjective is the cost of complying with regulations, which may reduce productivity and/or increase overheads.

I know that for pigs, some Scandinavian countries impose production methods which are intended to improve animal welfare and definitely do increase cost of production in those countries. So no, the UK doesn't have the highest most expensive standards in the world.

A good example of the subjectivity of high animal welfare standards is the whole farrowing crate debate. Farrowing crates maximise piglet survival rates (ensuring the greatest practicable freedom from pain and injury for the piglets). However, they are often seen as low welfare for the sow (preventing her from exhibiting natural behaviours like nest-building and moving about freely). By contrast, outdoor farrowing offers the sow much greater chance to exhibit natural behaviour, but at the expense of the piglets' freedom from pain and injury (as borne out by mortality figures).

If farrowing crates were to be banned in this country, as they already are in some of our near-neighbours, would pig welfare have improved or not?

There's a lot of form filling in the UK (the same in other countries) I'm not sure the end product is any better though, rules and laws in each country are different, you farm to the rules in your own country.
I've never heard of anyone being banned from farming for not having the paperwork in order?
Welfare's an interesting one, if you showed the "public" here pictures of UK and Irish beef cattle in small pens in sheds, many would say that was a lower standard especially the ones kept on slats with no bedding and no space.
Is a large outdoor Feed lot in Texas better or worse from a welfare point of view than a shed in Scotland?

 

[Highland Mule]

I'm only trying to poke our producers to ensure 'their' produce is on this supermarket shelf, not something from 1000 miles away! If it's on the local shelf it will be bought and if it's tasty it will be sought. If it isn't there at all then it's your loss not mine as I'm the final person, the buyer. It's that simple! Get me and 1000 others to repeat my purchase and you've created a 'Demand'.
This will happen more and more. Do we really want to have stuff from the USA with their low grade standards offered on our shelves?
Perhaps this Polish mince is top quality? If it is you are then a double loser as If I buy it and it really is tasty then I'll seek it out next time......whose the loser then.....?
OK I'm one of these horrendous, awful, diseased, should-be-shot, remainers but with X6 young, well educated (all 6 have university degrees), international children, I listen to their jugement and remain convinced irrespective of the current situation in that we need to fight our very own corner or loose out as in this situation. Insidious it is and UK farmers will always be the losers as the markets will always go for 'cheap' as this sells. Back to you and I'll ask what you produce?

SS

I’m also a remainder - about as staunch as you will get, so staunch as to know there’s a whole sub forum on here for all Brexit threads. I also know that last week the shelves were empty, many processors were shut down or adapting to distance requirements and the public were hungry.

I produce beef and lamb, and am happy to sell it myself, rather than rely on a supermarket to do it for me.

I too am degree educated, and know that Poland is in Europe, that there are no barriers to us trading with them and I believe that is a good thing.

 

[Nithsdale]

Yes it does have high standards. But from what I've seen in a number of countries, I'm not sure it is any better than most other countries.

Let's look at lamb.

Regardless where in the world its farmed;

If it's born, reared, fed and looked after. Given antibiotics if/when needed, treated to prevent fly strike and given Anthelmintics if/when needed to control worms, or fluke...

If come time of slaughter, the animal is fit and healthy. Tests show it is clear of all drugs withdrawals - then who is anyone to say that lamb has suffered lower welfare standards than ours?

Only difference is we wrote down what day we used a white wormer for Nemo...







Theres some f**king rough farms in the UK, but they're still FA and accredited.
We have a tremendous product which is, IMO, amongst Lamb in the best in the world but I don't believe our extra paperwork makes the meat any better.

 

[NZDan]

Let's look at lamb.

Regardless where in the world its farmed;

If it's born, reared, fed and looked after. Given antibiotics if/when needed, treated to prevent fly strike and given Anthelmintics if/when needed to control worms, or fluke...

If come time of slaughter, the animal is fit and healthy. Tests show it is clear of all drugs withdrawals - then who is anyone to say that lamb has suffered lower welfare standards than ours?

Only difference is we wrote down what day we used a white wormer for Nemo...







Theres some fudgeing rough farms in the UK, but they're still FA and accredited.
We have a tremendous product which is, IMO, amongst Lamb in the best in the world but I don't believe our extra paperwork makes the meat any better.

You have summed it up perfectly.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Everything to do with BREXIT methinks.....This is free-trade.......If you can't get this onto Sainsburys shelves from UK producers then there's something really wrong with the system.......Been mentioned many, many times on this forum British farmers have an opportunity to step up with their very best produce.....

SS

Poland is in the EU.

This is EU produce.

I have no doubt Polish meat has been on sale in the UK for a long time .. just repackaged by our dear importers.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

@JP1 move this to where it belongs

The Bin?
SS

 

[wanton dwarf]

I’m also a remainder - about as staunch as you will get, so staunch as to know there’s a whole sub forum on here for all Brexit threads. I also know that last week the shelves were empty, many processors were shut down or adapting to distance requirements and the public were hungry.

I produce beef and lamb, and am happy to sell it myself, rather than rely on a supermarket to do it for me.

I too am degree educated, and know that Poland is in Europe, that there are no barriers to us trading with them and I believe that is a good thing.

I agree other than the bit about trading with Poland is a good thing.

All trade is OK .. BUT trade can be used to move margins from producers to importers .. many producers jobs lost so a few importers can make £Billions.

That's not good, in fact IMHO that's evil and in circumstances like today it is totally unworkable and dangerous.

 

[wanton dwarf]

View attachment 868801
In Sainsburys right now. Free trade and all that.

SS

Brexit is NOTHING to do with Free Trade.

Brexit is totally about making HMG accountable to the voting public for ALL policies.

If the voting public decide "Free Trade" is the correct policy, then that is what they'll get - rather than something imposed by Brussels.

BTW this Polish meat is "EU Free Trade" .. so those who voted Remain literally voted for this meat being in UK supermarkets.

Personally I want most of UK goods produced in the UK rather than imported .. that's why I voted Brexit.

 

[ollie989898]

The present circumstances are not free trade. The EU is about wholescale protectionism with nanny state regulation and extreme corruption on a prolific scale. The sheer cost of the EU government and their regulation that stifle competitivess has dogged this country for years.