The Red Tractor ACCS referendum

[Grass And Grain]

I think the first grain merchant that decides to take only non FA grain only, will be in for a bumper intake.

If they decide to pay a £ a tonne less then they would make more profit and the farmer will easily save the £ a tonne in pointless paperwork and unseen costs........................ so winner, winner for all.

Just need to persuade that merchant now.

I'm in.

Have been thinking if we can undermine RT by offering two different prices to our merchants. One price for passport with a sticker, another price without the sticker.

Or just suddenly, collectively, only sell grain for a certain month without a sticker. 'Sorry but we've only got unassured for sale this month'. We can jump back in with a sticker a few weeks later, or just continue to starve them out. No risk to our business or FA status.

Not sure if it would/could be made to work.

 

[Farmer1001]

I think the first grain merchant that decides to take only non FA grain only, will be in for a bumper intake.

If they decide to pay a £ a tonne less then they would make more profit and the farmer will easily save the £ a tonne in pointless paperwork and unseen costs........................ so winner, winner for all.

Just need to persuade that merchant now.

They'd have all my business.

So as long as RT wheat is £1/tonne over non assured you will stay with RT?

 

[Grass And Grain]

We will still need a scheme. A basic U.K. legal minimum scheme where we each sign and register a certificate of conformity stating that our produce complies with minimum U.K. legal standards. We each have a number that goes with our produce. So we still have traceability accountability and all those good things. What we won’t have is the RT gold plating that adds to our costs. We will have a manual of U.K. legal standards to follow. We will have a few roving random inspectors even. But we won’t have the annual sprayer test, need to gather NRoSO points or have a test certificate for the moisture meter, just for starters. None of these are legal requirements. They are gold plating.
So, you say, what if merchants continue to refuse to buy anything other than RT produce? Well, once a critical mass of producers have joined the basic scheme, they all leave RT en masse and the buyers then won’t have much choice but to buy basic standard produce. That’s what they are importing anyway. If they want RT produce they will have to pay a premium to cover the gold plating costs it entails.
A fairer more honest system all round but only achievable by producer solidarity.

I sort of agree withvyou Doc, but equally most (or many) sheep seem to get traded without RT.

 

[Grass And Grain]

So as long as RT wheat is £1/tonne over non assured you will stay with RT?

If we all did it for a year (at any price difference), then RT would be finished. Or even a few weeks.

 

[Farmer1001]

If we all did it for a year (at any price difference), then RT would be finished. Or even a few weeks.

If you left then it would be finished, but with 46000 members I'm not so sure it will happen, even if 45,000 are unhappy.

 

[texelburger]

So we had BSE and as a result assurance schemes were born.
Who will fund it they cried ? Well the farmers of course,they aren't unified and a little disjointed so we can pull the wool over their eyes"."Well if they pay can we have a little input" shout the Supermarkets and retailers."Lets get their union on board that should help,let's give them a few salaried positions for encouragement."."Right let's think of a logo,how about a tractor,a red one do we all agree ? "Sounds great say the supermarkets,we can use it to market our products( could even use a little poetic licence with the packaging to make it all seem the assured) and those lovely farmers are going to pay for it all"."Can we join in shout AHDB ,they fund us too you know ? " "Of course you can,welcome to the inner circle."
And Ladies and Gentlemen Red Tractor was born.

 

[tullah]

So as long as RT wheat is £1/tonne over non assured you will stay with RT?

No point being with RT as would cost me £4 a tonne minimum for a £ ton benefit. Net loss £3.
Worse than no point....it would be bad business and the shareholders would wonder about my grip on things.

 

[DrWazzock]

Nothing is going to happen overnight. You really have to build up a more representative producers organisation then build membership and credibility of the new basic assurance scheme. If the only thing it achieved was moderation of RT then it would have achieved something. You never know though, there might be enough buyers interested in it for it to take off. And possibly buying at a pound a ton less? Quite a big saving if you are filling a boat and don’t need premium quality but need the confidence and traceability of the basic U.K. scheme. With RT costing me at least £3 per ton I’d happily take £1 per tonne less to shift basic standard grain.

 

[Farmer1001]

No point being with RT as would cost me £4 a tonne minimum for a £ ton benefit. Net loss £3.

Woolly quoted a £ tonne which surprised me. Thanks for equating the scheme to an actual
cost as that’s solid evidence, not even Clive knows his costs of RT.

 

[Drillman]

Woolly quoted a £ tonne which surprised me. Thanks for equating the scheme to an actual
cost as that’s solid evidence, not even Clive knows his costs of RT.

It’s not all about the cost though is it!

some of it’s the gold plating and sheer stupidity at there end adding things that have no benefit to us or the end user?

I’ve always said it started out as a good idea but has got out of control with layer upon layer of pointless bullsh!t

the really sad and annoying part about it all is that Jim Mosley and his predecessors have jointly made a monumental cock up of something that should have been brilliant for UK agriculture.

it maybe won’t be today or tomorrow but unless RT sorts itself out it will wither and die.

let’s face it FABBL is already on its way out with most sheep men having abandoned it and no benefit to live weight or store stock cattle sellers.

 

[tullah]

]

Woolly quoted a £ tonne which surprised me. Thanks for equating the scheme to an actual
cost as that’s solid evidence, not even Clive knows his costs of RT.

Perhaps that's because pointless admin together with all the stress it's difficult to put a figure on.

 

[Farmer1001]

It’s not all about the cost though is it!

some of it’s the gold plating and sheer stupidity at there end adding things that have no benefit to us or the end user?

I’ve always said it started out as a good idea but has got out of control with layer upon layer of pointless bullsh!t

the really sad and annoying part about it all is that Jim Mosley and his predecessors have jointly made a monumental cock up of something that should have been brilliant for UK agriculture.

it maybe won’t be today or tomorrow but unless RT sorts itself out it will wither and die.

let’s face it FABBL is already on its way out with most sheep men having abandoned it and no benefit to live weight or store stock cattle sellers.

And here lies the biggest issue, the problems are immense and different problems to different individuals. There is no silver bullet despite being encouraged to think there is.

 

[Clive]

Woolly quoted a £ tonne which surprised me. Thanks for equating the scheme to an actual
cost as that’s solid evidence, not even Clive knows his costs of RT.

i could work it out i’m sure but that would be wasting even more of my valuable time on it

its a significant cost when i consider all the extra licences, Cpd, testing and record keeping / inspection time on top of actually membership fee

 

[Drillman]

And here lies the biggest issue, the problems are immense and different problems to different individuals. There is no silver bullet despite being encouraged to think there is.

I don’t think anyone on here thinks there’s a silver bullet. I certainly don’t.

it’s the gold plated bullet we all have issues with and want sorting.

 

[Farmer1001]

I don’t think anyone on here thinks there’s a silver bullet. I certainly don’t.

it’s the gold plated bullet we all have issues with and want sorting.

Which is why I left

 

[MrNoo]

If you left then it would be finished, but with 46000 "press ganged" members I'm not so sure it will happen, even if 45,000 are unhappy.

Oh, I am sure once it gets out that there is a potential new scheme without the rubbish they'd leave in their droves, where one goes others follow

 

[Breakthru]

What is very much agreed is there has to be a minimum standard however the gold plated endless inane bull crap they put out has to stop.
The board should be told that they have to cut costs by 50% in the next 3 years.
They can start by cutting board members, consultants and various other hangers on. For every new regulation an old one has to be removed.
Reference the comment about Scrap early on. A look of disbelief should ensue and the assessor educated to the fact that what he is looking at is a very valuable farm asset. The recycling and repair centre. No wastage as per Sir David Attenborough.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Reducing BPS means getting more efficient and reducing costs. We need RT to work to the same agenda, otherwise I predict they will be history. Adapt or die.

They need to be reducing daft pointless papet shuffling exercises, sprayer testing no more than legislation requires, no NRoSO requirement (they've run out of things to tell us now), no need to write down date I filled rat bait, etc, etc.

This month, it's Noredtractoranuary.

 

[Bury the Trash]

by the way ....... i wonder if his farm was removed from the scheme following this clear none compliance?

the hypocrisy is eminence ! they really seem to believe theor own shite doesn’t smell i reckon !


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That's disgraceful. Someone who can't look after land any better than that, should be banned from managing it.

 

[Farmer1001]

Oh, I am sure once it gets out that there is a potential new scheme without the rubbish they'd leave in their droves, where one goes others follow

Now this is where I would suggest Clive should really focus, not by polling the lemmings but setting up an alternative option for those who have the desire for change and prepared to back their convictions. The struggle would be in producing a scheme that replaced RT rather than reflected RT with new board, new rules, new regs etc. I have little doubt Clive could canvas support for such a scheme from a few large operators to kick this off rather than throwing away the opportunity for change by trying to solve everyone’s problems, inc those who will dump him for a £1! I suspect the future could be made up of multiple sector, regional and group schemes and RT may be replaced by statutory legislations that already exists and doesn’t need an extra badge. That’s my thoughts and I have multiple concerns about making it a success but have never shied from
a challenge despite getting shot down.