The Red Tractor ACCS referendum

[MrNoo]

There is a lot of talk about RT saying that if your a member it reduces inspections from Defra, trading standards EA etc etc....

wonder if it’s possible to contact the above for there take on things?

Yes, I noticed this of late, all hot air and yet more justification for their existence. Do DEFRA TS etc actually know who is in RT or not? I suspect not unless RT shares membership information with all relevant bodies which I would think against data protection etc

 

[Drillman]

Yes, I noticed this of late, all hot air and yet more justification for their existence. Do DEFRA TS etc actually know who is in RT or not? I suspect not unless RT shares membership information with all relevant bodies which I would think against data protection etc

Yes I don’t recall ever signing anything that allows RT to share my data with other companies or agencies.

 

[traineefarmer]

There is a lot of talk about RT saying that if your a member it reduces inspections from Defra, trading standards EA etc etc....

wonder if it’s possible to contact the above for there take on things?

It's my belief that this is the only benefit to RT membership (aside from permission to sell your product in certain markets) I've had it confirmed verbally from both sides that a clean RT/assurance record will keep the government agencies from your door. They do not share data as such, but member lists are available to interested parties. I do not know if a run of non-compliances will flag your business to Defra, etc.

 

[dontknowanything]

I was contacted privately yesterday by a farmer who used to sit on an NFU board. He said he had been in NFU meetings with DEFRA where DEFRA said specifically that they did not consider RT to be earned recognition.

I won't out the person who told me, if they wish to attach their name to it then they can.

 

[Sid]

There is a lot of talk about RT saying that if your a member it reduces inspections from Defra, trading standards EA etc etc....

wonder if it’s possible to contact the above for there take on things?

It does mean that in dairy we do not get free visits from Dairy hygiene inspectorate.
We now pay for what was once free!

 

[traineefarmer]

It's taken me a long time to catch up with this thread, having voted when it first opened, it seems to have run away.

Loads of good ideas here. I can't remember names, but a big thank you to the members who are trying to digest the overseas assurance schemes, looking into competition law, contacting RT, ADHB and AIC to highlight the discrimination in the rules and those taking the fight onto both social and traditional media.

For my two pence worth, the idea of a tick box to declare compliance with UK laws is the key here. I'd recommend looking into how CE mark declaration works. From my engineering days (a while ago now admittedly) I believe that to gain a CE mark all you needed to do was make a legal declaration that it your product met the standards, which then accompanied the product - normally to be found at the back of the instruction manual.

No inspection regime, just self certification. Consultants are available to assist you in compliance but not mandatory. Of course if there is a problem with your product and it has not met the relevant standards, the sh!t really hits the fan and you are personally responsible.

I see no reason why a similar model couldn't work.

 

[steveR]

No inspection regime, just self certification. Consultants are available to assist you in compliance but not mandatory. Of course if there is a problem with your product and it has not met the relevant standards, the sh!t really hits the fan and you are personally responsible.

I see no reason why a similar model couldn't work.

I think that you will find that is the case now anyway!! RT don't offer some super warranty or insurance...

 

[Henarar]

It does mean that in dairy we do not get free visits from Dairy hygiene inspectorate.
We now pay for what was once free!

As I have said before we had a TA inspection, nice bloke, no problem apart from a bit of paperwork not quite right and never cost a penny

 

[Steevo]

It's my belief that this is the only benefit to RT membership (aside from permission to sell your product in certain markets) I've had it confirmed verbally from both sides that a clean RT/assurance record will keep the government agencies from your door. They do not share data as such, but member lists are available to interested parties. I do not know if a run of non-compliances will flag your business to Defra, etc.

Something tells me that RT would like you to think that you are less likely to have an inspection is you PASS RT compared to if RT did not exist.

However more likely is that if you FAIL RT more than once you are more likely to have an inspection than I’d RT did not exist.

I guess my point is that RT is less earned recognition of positive and more recognition of problems.

Government departments don’t have the timeto inspect every farm regularly. RT would therefore potentially allow them to only check a red list more likely to be a problem than the average.

If that is the case, we’re actually making the government’s life easier.....and paying for it! Oh, and making more hassle for ourselves with inspection of every farmer each year to weed these out.

 

[Happy at it]

This might be a silly question as a non arable man.

How can the small number of brands that actually carry the red tractor logo I.e weetabix etc100% guarantee non imported non red tractor grain is used in their product? The companies like these that are so proud of the scheme, is there any evidence at all that they pay extra, and what premium do they actually pay?

 

[dontknowanything]

This might be a silly question as a non arable man.

How can the small number of brands that actually carry the red tractor logo I.e weetabix etc100% guarantee non imported non red tractor grain is used in their product? The companies like these that are so proud of the scheme, is there any evidence at all that they pay extra, and what premium do they actually pay?

I have grown for Weetabix before, so I feel I can answer this question.

If you go to the merchant who buys their grain (used to be Gleadells when I did it), they will say, for example, I will buy standard wheat for £150, and Weetabix for £155. "Great" you think, I'll do Weetabix!

However, when you then shop around with other merchants, you'll find they are also offering you £155 (or maybe £156, £157) for standard wheat.

This is why I don't bother with the Weetabix contract any more.

(I should add that my experiences were from several years ago, so it could have changed now)

 

[Henarar]

It does mean that in dairy we do not get free visits from Dairy hygiene inspectorate.
We now pay for what was once free!

The dairy inspector that use to come here Dad got on well with, she used to be interested in hedges and birds and wildlife, he would get her talking about that and there wasn't much time left for the inspection, then she left and some bloke took over that was a right Hitler, came out with all sorts of daft ideas, one farmer went and got the shotgun to get him to leave pretty darn quickly in the end.

 

[Sid]

As I have said before we had a TA inspection, nice bloke, no problem apart from a bit of paperwork not quite right and never cost a penny

Quote from RT ,
25% of non RT farms inspected, 2% of RT.
By government agencys

 

[Sid]

The dairy inspector that use to come here Dad got on well with, she used to be interested in hedges and birds and wildlife, he would get her talking about that and there wasn't much time left for the inspection, then she left and some bloke took over that was a right Hitler, came out with all sorts of daft ideas, one farmer went and got the shotgun to get him to leave pretty darn quickly in the end.

Inspector locally here moved incorrectly stored dry cow tubes from one place to another, farmer then tubed a milking cow with wrong tube.
Fan hit shite.....re-arrange for result!

 

[Henarar]

Quote from RT ,
25% of non RT farms inspected, 2% of RT.
By government agencys

Not saying they are wrong cos I don't have the figures but they would say that wouldn't they, frighten you in to joining

 

[Happy at it]

I have grown for Weetabix before, so I feel I can answer this question.

If you go to the merchant who buys their grain (used to be Gleadells when I did it), they will say, for example, I will buy standard wheat for £150, and Weetabix for £155. "Great" you think, I'll do Weetabix!

However, when you then shop around with other merchants, you'll find they are also offering you £155 (or maybe £156, £157) for standard wheat.

This is why I don't bother with the Weetabix contract any more.

(I should add that my experiences were from several years ago, so it could have changed now)

Thanks, so it would be the case that they would be ever be buying imported wheat, or uk and import wheat mixed.

 

[Daniel]

Here is the link to Farming today where @dontknowanything gets his points in well and then @Guy Smith responds. The interview starts at 8 minutes.

Farming Today - 04/02/21 Questions about Red Tractor, new dairy code of conduct, agro-ecology, outdoor education online - BBC Sounds

Today we hear questions about the Red Tractor scheme from arable farmers.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Steevo]

Quote from RT ,
25% of non RT farms inspected, 2% of RT.
By government agencys

We don’t know RT was a deciding factor for the inspection though.

It may be they visited for other reasons, and just noted whether they were RT or not.

It could be for example that they were all smallholders who were reported for poor treatment of the one micro pig they bought that turned out to be a real size one.

 

[Steevo]

Thanks, so it would be the case that they would be ever be buying imported wheat, or uk and import wheat mixed.

As I understand it Weetabix have their own growers group so they can determine standards themselves, which are probably greater than RT and would exist with or without RT.

 

[Sid]

Not saying they are wrong cos I don't have the figures but they would say that wouldn't they, frighten you in to joining

We don’t know RT was a deciding factor for the inspection though.

It may be they visited for other reasons, and just noted whether they were RT or not.

It could be for example that they were all smallholders who were reported for poor treatment of the one micro pig they bought that turned out to be a real size one.

Both valid points.