The Red Tractor ACCS referendum

Would you leave or remain a Red Tractor ACCS member ?

  • Yes, I would resign my Red Tractor (ACCS) membership and join a new "equal to imports" Scheme

    Votes: 659 96.1%
  • No, I would remain in the Red Tractor scheme

    Votes: 27 3.9%

  • Total voters
    686

cb387

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cotswolds
This is one of those situations where it’s is necessary to play the ball and not the man. In his role as Chairman of the Crops RT sector and RT main Board member it is NOT Guys role to stand up for us.
He is paid by RT to promote and implement the scheme. As Chair he has to represent the consensus view of his committee, that committe covers different sectors of the industry not just farmer producers.
That is the bit we don’t like. Those other sectors seem to hold the whip hand and exercise their influence in getting producers to do things for their benefit at no reward to the producer and no cost to those that want it.
The whole organisation is weighted against farmer producers.
Talk to some of the producer members that sit on the sector committees. I know those that sit on the Cereal committe personally and I can assure you that they are hugely frustrated by the whole process and they way things are pushed through. There is the question of should they engage and be part of the discussion? That’s a difficult one. Do you walk away and refuse to engage in this “cartel” or do you at least try to put the producers view and attempt to moderate some of the rules.
To put it bluntly do you consider it’s better to be inside the tent p’ing out or outside p’ing in?
If committee members are as frustrated as you say by the direction it is taking, then their influence is pretty worthless. They are obviously not being listened to so no point being part of it.
 

An Gof

Member
Location
Cornwall
If committee members are as frustrated as you say by the direction it is taking, then their influence is pretty worthless. They are obviously not being listened to so no point being part of it.

They do get/are very frustrated by the situation. But what do you do? Walk away and have no influence?
Whether we like it or not I don’t see RT disappearing, too many of the great and the good will die in a ditch for it unfortunately. Sad thing is some of the very same people are “meant” to be representing us. But it’s ok, they know what’s best for us 🤦
 

Dave645

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
N Lincs
They do get/are very frustrated by the situation. But what do you do? Walk away and have no influence?
Whether we like it or not I don’t see RT disappearing, too many of the great and the good will die in a ditch for it unfortunately. Sad thing is some of the very same people are “meant” to be representing us. But it’s ok, they know what’s best for us 🤦
We start a new scheme,
https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/earned-recognition-approved-assurance-schemes

get it recognised by the food standards agency and basically everyone has to accept it. All a basic new scheme needs is to meet the new red 2 directive and animal feed standards that imports already do and it’s up and running next you extend it up to human consumption crops.
The RT animal side is not my bag so I am not commenting on what changes if any to make on those.
 

Dave645

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
N Lincs
https://ec.europa.eu/energy/sites/ener/files/documents/2013_task_1_mass_balance_and_alternatives.pdf

the red tractor requirement for mass balances, according to this if it’s for bio fuel, then they existed with” red “ so why only now we need them for the new “red 2” I have no clue and they seem to be more for middle men who handle multiple products but throw them in one shed, so why have they been added to red tractor?

what happens when you don’t show the RT inspector any paper work?
You let them wander round the farm then you don’t show them any official paper work?

you just give them a bit of paper work that shows the same requirements that imports need and sign it?
does anyone have a declaration sheet or can anyone make one up, a few check list, with tick boxes and a signature box.
I am also happy to include the spray cert etc

my suggestions,

I declare that no banned chemicals have been used on crops, and application have been within manufactures recommendations.

i declare that my crop storage has not changed since my last inspection.

I declare that we use no baits or poisons in storage areas.

I declare than I do my utmost to manage my crop to reduce the risk of micro toxins, from ergot.

I declare we manage our stores to minimise the risk of pests and contamination’s. and adhere to storage management rules.

I declare all the crop I sell is produced on my farm.


While I make these suggestions, I am open to more or less declarations, and your suggested declaration sheet.

if we all started to hand over declarations rather than full audits then it puts the ball in RT court. They can either suspend us all or they can start excepting them.
I suggest the declaration is worded to minimise the number of non conformity rules we break.
as far as I can tell inspections are the only real way to tell our paper work is not all lies so, why not go to the next step and let inspections be the only part that we comply to and for the paper work we use a declaration form.
A couple of ticks from an agronomist and spray operator covers all the chemical application side. The fert side was pointless anyway where can we buy fertiliser not meeting standards, again a declaration and job done, we hand over a single piece of paper only to the RT inspector.
My other suggestion is it more than meets the import standard needed for imports.
This makes it less tenable to RT to block farmers from selling crops.

What are your thoughts and suggestions, while I would be happier if we got an official declaration form from a recognised body that would make the form more official, but anything is better than nothing.
Like a form we can tick check boxes in on from the AHDB.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
https://ec.europa.eu/energy/sites/ener/files/documents/2013_task_1_mass_balance_and_alternatives.pdf

the red tractor requirement for mass balances, according to this if it’s for bio fuel, then they existed with” red “ so why only now we need them for the new “red 2” I have no clue and they seem to be more for middle men who handle multiple products but throw them in one shed, so why have they been added to red tractor?

what happens when you don’t show the RT inspector any paper work?
You let them wander round the farm then you don’t show them any official paper work?

you just give them a bit of paper work that shows the same requirements that imports need and sign it?
does anyone have a declaration sheet or can anyone make one up, a few check list, with tick boxes and a signature box.
I am also happy to include the spray cert etc

my suggestions,

I declare that no banned chemicals have been used on crops, and application have been within manufactures recommendations.

i declare that my crop storage has not changed since my last inspection.

I declare that we use no baits or poisons in storage areas.

I declare than I do my utmost to manage my crop to reduce the risk of micro toxins, from ergot.

I declare we manage our stores to minimise the risk of pests and contamination’s. and adhere to storage management rules.

I declare all the crop I sell is produced on my farm.


While I make these suggestions, I am open to more or less declarations, and your suggested declaration sheet.

if we all started to hand over declarations rather than full audits then it puts the ball in RT court. They can either suspend us all or they can start excepting them.
I suggest the declaration is worded to minimise the number of non conformity rules we break.
as far as I can tell inspections are the only real way to tell our paper work is not all lies so, why not go to the next step and let inspections be the only part that we comply to and for the paper work we use a declaration form.
A couple of ticks from an agronomist and spray operator covers all the chemical application side. The fert side was pointless anyway where can we buy fertiliser not meeting standards, again a declaration and job done, we hand over a single piece of paper only to the RT inspector.
My other suggestion is it more than meets the import standard needed for imports.
This makes it less tenable to RT to block farmers from selling crops.

What are your thoughts and suggestions, while I would be happier if we got an official declaration form from a recognised body that would make the form more official, but anything is better than nothing.
Like a form we can tick check boxes in on from the AHDB.
No inspection. This grain is equal to imports. Job done everyone fudge off and let me farm according to the law of the land. Self certified absolutely nothing else is needed.
 

Wooly

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Romney Marsh
https://ec.europa.eu/energy/sites/ener/files/documents/2013_task_1_mass_balance_and_alternatives.pdf

the red tractor requirement for mass balances, according to this if it’s for bio fuel, then they existed with” red “ so why only now we need them for the new “red 2” I have no clue and they seem to be more for middle men who handle multiple products but throw them in one shed, so why have they been added to red tractor?

what happens when you don’t show the RT inspector any paper work?
You let them wander round the farm then you don’t show them any official paper work?

you just give them a bit of paper work that shows the same requirements that imports need and sign it?
does anyone have a declaration sheet or can anyone make one up, a few check list, with tick boxes and a signature box.
I am also happy to include the spray cert etc

my suggestions,

I declare that no banned chemicals have been used on crops, and application have been within manufactures recommendations.

i declare that my crop storage has not changed since my last inspection.

I declare that we use no baits or poisons in storage areas.

I declare than I do my utmost to manage my crop to reduce the risk of micro toxins, from ergot.

I declare we manage our stores to minimise the risk of pests and contamination’s. and adhere to storage management rules.

I declare all the crop I sell is produced on my farm.


While I make these suggestions, I am open to more or less declarations, and your suggested declaration sheet.

if we all started to hand over declarations rather than full audits then it puts the ball in RT court. They can either suspend us all or they can start excepting them.
I suggest the declaration is worded to minimise the number of non conformity rules we break.
as far as I can tell inspections are the only real way to tell our paper work is not all lies so, why not go to the next step and let inspections be the only part that we comply to and for the paper work we use a declaration form.
A couple of ticks from an agronomist and spray operator covers all the chemical application side. The fert side was pointless anyway where can we buy fertiliser not meeting standards, again a declaration and job done, we hand over a single piece of paper only to the RT inspector.
My other suggestion is it more than meets the import standard needed for imports.
This makes it less tenable to RT to block farmers from selling crops.

What are your thoughts and suggestions, while I would be happier if we got an official declaration form from a recognised body that would make the form more official, but anything is better than nothing.
Like a form we can tick check boxes in on from the AHDB.

Easier to declare that I won't sell anything that I wouldn't eat myself !
 

Pigless

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
A group of TFF members are considering running a run a crowdfund for some first-step legal action - don't need to raise a heap of cash for that now a group of us have had advice a few NFU members would like to raise enough cash to send a formal legal letter to the NFU outlining the case against AIC / RT
Is there any more information on this? It's what we must do, the AIC upping our standards whilst holding down the price by allowing their members to use imports is clearly wrong. The NFU are clearly not prepared to confront the issue, so I have cancelled and will contribute.
 

Pigless

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Is there any more information on this? It's what we must do, the AIC upping our standards whilst holding down the price by allowing their members to use imports is clearly wrong. The NFU are clearly not prepared to confront the issue, so I have cancelled and will contribute.
I spoke to a few or our representatives at the NFU before cancelling, and they claim they have had a few "victory's" in dumbing down some of the new standards for November, but the structure is wrong. We need competition in the assurance scheme. An alternative scheme that can be accepted by AIC members, and is at a level of a UK legal standard, I've been told this was put forward as a "red tractor lite" version but was not persued.
I would love to rejoin the NFU if they sort this out! Or an alternative body to represent farmers.
 
They do get/are very frustrated by the situation. But what do you do? Walk away and have no influence?
Whether we like it or not I don’t see RT disappearing, too many of the great and the good will die in a ditch for it unfortunately. Sad thing is some of the very same people are “meant” to be representing us. But it’s ok, they know what’s best for us 🤦


Who are "great and good"? I just see a bunch of people going through the motions. As I said before I don't blame Jim Mosely as he's just doing a job he's paid to do, his job is to grow the "importance" of the company, even if it's all balls.

Nothing great and good about any of the RT stuff. No one is holding any of it to account by the people who fund it.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.2%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 65 34.8%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,289
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top